A debate: Does God exist ?

[peacemaker]

Hello everyone:)

Napakasakit isipin na may mga taong hindi naniniwala na may Dios. Denying the existence of God is similar to a child who denies the existence of his parents. God and man are in the parent and child relationship thats why its very painful for God if we deny his existence.

While this God denying forces are very determined to propagate their godless beleif, the religious people or God beleivers on the other hand are busy "fighting" each other claiming that their own religion or church is the right one. This is the real scenario of our world today.

I think this is our responsiblity as God beleivers to unite and work together and propagate the beleif that there is really God , who created mankind and this world.

The video shows 2 groups debating, between the "way of the master" a religious group who proves the existence of God and the " rational response squad" a group of atheist people who deny the existince of God. To view pls click the link below:

http://www.moviesfoundonlin e.com/nightline_%20does_go d_exist1.htm

[sarpon]

in my PERSONAL view, this shouldnt be debated. We all know that there is a GOD. besides its not for us to comprehend GOD because HE is way beyond our comprehension.. kung religion naman, di rin dapat pagdebatehan kasi mauubos na natin ang lahat ng servers sa buong mundo sa mga post natin e hindi pa rin tayo matatapos..:D

yun ay akin lang naman pong opinyon..

[la_tina512]

in my PERSONAL view, this shouldnt be debated. We all know that there is a GOD. besides its not for us to comprehend GOD because HE is way beyond our comprehension.. kung religion naman, di rin dapat pagdebatehan kasi mauubos na natin ang lahat ng servers sa buong mundo sa mga post natin e hindi pa rin tayo matatapos..:D

yun ay akin lang naman pong opinyon..

Opinion ko rin yan. The existence of God shouldn't be debated at all. Don sa part na we all know, hindi lahat ay nakakaalam na may God. Kaya maraming tao rin ang nagwo-worship sa mga idols because they don't know that we have a God to properly worship. About religion, it also shouldn't be debated about. Malaman na lang natin kung ano ba ang tama when we get there. My personal view pa rin, what I really wanted to share is not only God's existence but also my having the right relationship with Him.

[infinite_trial]

on topic post:

the debate was actually presented by theists (referring to actor kirk cameron and banana boy ray comfort -- i have a thread about his banana as proof of god's existence before) themselves, so if people really do think that god does exist, then why debate on it? good point.

as for me, god is relative. but the big guy in the sky just doesn't work for me. it's like noticing the emperor has no clothes at all.

[v_wrangler]

on topic post:

the debate was actually presented by theists (referring to actor kirk cameron and banana boy ray comfort -- i have a thread about his banana as proof of god's existence before) themselves, so if people really do think that god does exist, then why debate on it? good point.

as for me, god is relative. but the big guy in the sky just doesn't work for me. it's like noticing the emperor has no clothes at all.

Its God, infinite, with a BIG "G". Hindi ka pa lang siguro napupunta sa sitwasyon na kailangan mong tumawag sa kanya.

[dianne]

everybody happy feast of tabernacles~~:p

[infinite_trial]

Its God, infinite, with a BIG "G".
for believers


Hindi ka pa lang siguro napupunta sa sitwasyon na kailangan mong tumawag sa kanya.
lahat naman siguro ng tao meron tough situation and i'd rather talk with someone who can respond to me.

but this thread is not about that...and for the benefit of everyone here are some clips of the debate para sa mga tinatamad manood

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[v_wrangler]

I don't want to be off topic and neither am I interested in such debates but frankly I just can't resist it when young people like yourselves consciously expand proudly on their belief or non-belief.

Of course you can be a non-believer and still live a harmless existence but out of respect for those who still believe - don't categorize "their God" as simply the small g up the sky.

Who knows time will come and baka maenganyo na rin Siyang sagutin ang mga katanungan mo kung meron man.

[may_abe]

Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.
But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.
When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...
1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:
The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
http://www.everystudent.com/pics/isthere2NEW.gifThe Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4
Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:
It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.
http://www.everystudent.com/pics/isthere3NEW.gifWater is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5
Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.
Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.
Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.
Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6
2. Does God exist? The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it.

The human brain...simultaneous ly processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.
http://www.everystudent.com/pics/isthere4NEW.jpgThe human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information... did it come about just by chance? Was it merely biological causes, perfectly forming the right tissue, blood flow, neurons, structure? The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people. How does one explain the human brain?
3. Does God exist? "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations.

The alternative to God existing is that all that exists around us came about by natural cause and random chance. If someone is rolling dice, the odds of rolling a pair of sixes is one thing. But the odds of spots appearing on blank dice is something else. What Pasteur attempted to prove centuries ago, science confirms, that life cannot arise from non-life. Where did human, animal, plant life come from?
Also, natural causes are an inadequate explanation for the amount of precise information contained in human DNA. A person who discounts God is left with the conclusion that all of this came about without cause, without design, and is merely good fortune. It is intellectually wanting to observe intricate design and attribute it to luck.
4. Does God exist? To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God.

This is not to say that if enough people believe something it is therefore true. Scientists, for example, have discovered new truths about the universe which overruled previous conclusions. But as science has progressed, no scientific discovery has countered the numerical likelihood of an intelligent mind being behind it all. In fact, the more science discovers about human life and the universe, the more complex and precisely designed we realize these to be. Rather than pointing away from God, evidence mounts further toward an intelligent source. But objective evidence is not all.
There is a much larger issue. Throughout history, billions of people in the world have attested to their firm, core convictions about God's existence--arrived at from their subjective, personal relationship with God. Millions today could give detailed account of their experience with God. They would point to answered prayer and specific, amazing ways God has met their needs, and guided them through important personal decisions. They would offer, not only a description of their beliefs, but detailed reports of God's actions in their lives. Many are sure that a loving God exists and has shown himself to be faithful to them. If you are a skeptic, can you say with certainty: "I am absolutely right and they all are wrong about God"?
5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.

I was an atheist at one time. And like most atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.
http://www.everystudent.com/pics/isthereSUNSET.jpgI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.
I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."
Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.
6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us.

Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.
He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."8 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."9
What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.10
Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.
Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."11 This is God, in action.
Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."12
God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith (http://www.everystudent.com/features/faith.html).
If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.

This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."13 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen."
God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."14
So, does God exist? Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way

[infinite_trial]

I don't want to be off topic and neither am I interested in such debates but frankly I just can't resist it when young people like yourselves consciously expand proudly on their belief or non-belief.

kaya nga po binabawasan na ang pagiging mainstay sa religion, so as not to give that impression. like you, di lang nakatiis since meron ibang nagcocomment kaagad without watching the whole thing.


Of course you can be a non-believer and still live a harmless existence but out of respect for those who still believe - don't categorize "their God" as simply the small g up the sky.

Who knows time will come and baka maenganyo na rin Siyang sagutin ang mga katanungan mo kung meron man.
i understand your point. i won't debate further on the "g" thing, pero about my statement above, what i meant was the idea of a god is relative..so i wasn't talking about a particular god. actually minsan ay may nakapuna sa paggamit ko pa rin ng "God" kaso ay sinaway ako at wala daw akong k.

[gabriel]

It is all about choices. If one chooses not to believe so be it. If one choose to be a believer so let him believe. I think for people who don't like to believe in people's thoughts and their scietific work, people who don't like to think how the world exist and instead like to believe in magic then b all means, they should believe in God. It is easier but really hard to live on.

I got a hard on looking at Kelly's front. If all the athiests are like her I might queue along.:p :p :p :p

[Stacie Fil]

I don't want to be off topic and neither am I interested in such debates but frankly I just can't resist it when young people like yourselves consciously expand proudly on their belief or non-belief.

Of course you can be a non-believer and still live a harmless existence but out of respect for those who still believe - don't categorize "their God" as simply the small g up the sky.

Who knows time will come and baka maenganyo na rin Siyang sagutin ang mga katanungan mo kung meron man.



He,he,he, sorry to butt in Mr V_wrangler, and forgive me if I'd say.

For the love of man and yours too(I think), ...




let's hope not. :D :grouphug: :bowdown:



:fish: to all :halo:

[g33k]

what's up mate, its been long and a busy week 'eh!

here's my idea and you may consider it lame or OT :D

i view this subject as a topic that is not debatable on two different entity. looking at the two-sides of the coin, its a battle between science and religion. religion claims that (G/g)od exists, but science wanted a naturalistic proof of his/her existence (to date, scientist or science itself hasn't proven his/her existence so they claim that (G/g)od does not exist).

things will be complicated if we mix this two entity. how about if we stick to a principle that science and religion should not be a topic of comparison? we leave science to science and religion to religion. same things for believers to believers and non-believers to non-believers. this way, we don't complicate things or life. otherwise, it would always be a battle of beliefs versus evidence. an unending journey hehe :D

let's just live to the ideals of what we believe, and respect others. this way, life would be sweet:love:, no complications :D

[Stacie Fil]

what's up mate, its been long and a busy week 'eh!

here's my idea and you may consider it lame or OT :D

i view this subject as a topic that is not debatable on two different entity. looking at the two-sides of the coin, its a battle between science and religion. religion claims that (G/g)od exists, but science wanted a naturalistic proof of his/her existence (to date, scientist or science itself hasn't proven his/her existence so they claim that (G/g)od does not exist).

things will be complicated if we mix this two entity. how about if we stick to a principle that science and religion should not be a topic of comparison? we leave science to science and religion to religion. same things for believers to believers and non-believers to non-believers. this way, we don't complicate things or life. otherwise, it would always be a battle of beliefs versus evidence. an unending journey hehe :D

let's just live to the ideals of what we believe, and respect others. this way, life would be sweet:love:, no complications :D

I'm not sure who is science or who is religion, making thier claims.:D But one thing for sure, they shouldn't battle. Specially in the idea of proving Gods' existence.

In the other hand its better I think that they should unite in proving or resolving that question. That includes also other fields of idea/ discipline, I guess.

In matters of believers and non-believers. My gives is that, some are either too high standard or not just sure to where stood in accepting thier limitations comparative to the given proof. So first we must know what is the necessary proof that can be acceptable as viable and correct for the matter. Not the way that people would illogically ask for unreasonable or tangible things in search of essencial or immaterial things. Thou there maybe matters like watching a picture or listening to understand an emotion or feelings. The only thing that comes to my mind which I believe might be a good way in proving this is to put them in a situation like a thin line to the aspect they wish to understand.

[g33k]

dude sorry for my ignorance, are you trying to say that religion hasn't proven it at all? :D


In the other hand its better I think that they should unite in proving or resolving that question. That includes also other fields of idea/ discipline, I guess.

[docomo]

Science is of man.. God is of faith.. I would rather think outside the box than in the small box of man's mind. God is limitless .:)

[lakandula]

Hi, I just want to share some "believe" verses in the book of John.


John 3:12 - If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 10:26 - But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
John 10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

John 12:44 - And Jesus cried out and said, He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.

John 14:1 - DO not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.


I believe that God exist. :)

[may_abe]

Zechariah 8:1-8
Psalm 102:16-23,29
Luke 9:46-50

An argument arose among the disciples about which of them was the greatest. Jesus realized the intention of their hearts and took a child and placed it by his side. and said to them," Whoever receives the one who sent me. For the one who is least among all of you is the one who is greatest." Then John said in reply,"Master,we saw someone casting out demons in your name and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow in your company." Jesus said to him," Do not prevent him,for whoever is not against you is for you".


;) Let there be peace on everyone..love to live live to love...

[Stacie Fil]

"In the other hand its better I think that they should unite in proving or resolving that question. That includes also other fields of idea/ discipline, I guess."

dude sorry for my ignorance, are you trying to say that religion hasn't proven it at all? :D

Sorry, but it seems your question is to far from what I'm trying to show.



In science, we talk about quanta or amount. Something that is there in all type of entity.
In religion, we speak about omnipresent...etc.

Where does science come from? Where does religion come from? Or even Math, arts, and other field of learnings. Looking for the same question, why not come together in resolving this matter instead.

Yes we are so divided. Bathala, Dios, God, Tathagathagarbha, Allah, Nibbana, Dao, or whatever way we call "The One" in any sphere of knowledge. That doesn't mean we are talking of something different. Should it become a barrier /camp/denomination among us when the basic of fundamental message revolves around empathy, compassion, forgiveness, love... ? Can't we find His presence?

Assuming we are masters in the book of Engels, Marx, and similar stuff etc. If we look outside or go off for a short vacation. We will always find order, system, beauty in nature, and the way it balance itself naturally.


Which then is real and which is the one made up by man's mind?

[sweetscrazy]

Science has proven that the Universe had a Beginning and it is expanding. In Islam, it has been written that the Universe is expanding and planets and galaxies travel in fixed orbits (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6r2GKTM3IcE) rather than being concidentally placed there, at a time when it was impossible for humans to prove so..

Therefore, Science is merely going to the direction of God, discovering what Prophets and saints have been pointing out for thousands of years. After thousands of years more, Science will eventually lead to the 'discovery' of God.

[goma_23]

hangga't hindi pa rin nagagawa ng science na mag create ng life out of dust , primitive pa rin ang science.

Science proved how life works upto its atomic & cellular level , but still , it lacks the knowledge to explain its beginnings , and this is the only logical explanation why Science is "owned" by God.

[NemoySpruce]

Does God exist? Short answer is definitely yes. The concept of “God” exists. We are able to talk about it (I am referring to the concept that’s why I use the ‘it’ pronoun) so it definitely exists. But when we ask, is he/she “real”? Can we “prove” he/she exists? Then the whole thing becomes really complicated because we have to rely on science to come up with a sensible answer, because science is simply a methodical way of proving things. This is the only way we can prove things, and it relies on empirical evidence. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that God or gods exist. Therefore for any science to be considered as good science, it has to take the god concept out of any investigation/equation because there is no empirical evidence for it. When a scientist is looking for reasons why a person died, he cannot simply conclude ‘because God decided it was his time to die’, that’s bad science. Science does not say, “God does not exist”, it just says, there is no evidence at the moment.

There is no reason to shy away from a healthy civilized debate; it is really very constructive if done with respect and empathy. Just remember, a debate is not really an activity to find truth. That is what science is for. A debate is basically just presentation of data, he who has more relevant data, wins. Not necessarily who is right or who is wrong. So you can lose a debate, but still hang on to your faith. It does not mean you let your faith down, it just means the other guy had more information than you. Don’t take it personally. Don’t fear information.

[may_abe]

:D ikiskis po natin yung palad natin ng 100 times. Mainit po di ba? saka smell it? di ba parang amoy putik.. hindi kaya ipaliwanag ng science kundi God lang ang pwedeng mag create ng HUMAN.

[NemoySpruce]

ayan po. tama kayu. gumamit po kayo ng science.

eto po ang empirical evidence ninyo.

1) kiskis kamay 100 times. heat is produced.
2) smells like putik

conclusion
only God can make HUMAN


this is science. you are trying to prove a hypothesis using empirical evidence and experimentation. but it is bad science, because your evidence does not support your conclusion.

tama po kayu na science can not prove how humans came to be. All science has is a bunch of theories, but these theories are supported by solid observable facts, and repeatable experiments. Faith has a loose collection of writings dated to be at least 2000 years old.



:D ikiskis po natin yung palad natin ng 100 times. Mainit po di ba? saka smell it? di ba parang amoy putik.. hindi kaya ipaliwanag ng science kundi God lang ang pwedeng mag create ng HUMAN.

at hindi po amoy putik ang kamay ko :D nag huhugas po ako pakatapos...

[may_abe]

@NemuySPruce

:D bahala ka...eh paano mo ngayon mapapaliwanag kung bakit ang moon eh bilog baket hindi triangle?in short, nature.

[infinite_trial]

to add to nemoy's statement...got this from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps):


"God of the gaps" is often used to describe the perceived retreat of religion in the face of increasingly comprehensive scientific explanations of natural phenomena. An example of the line of reasoning starts with the position that early religious descriptions of objects and events (such as the Sun, Moon, and stars; thunder and lightning) placed these in the realm of things created or controlled by a god or gods. As science found explanations for observations in the realms of astronomy, meteorology, geology, cosmology and biology, the 'need' for a god to explain phenomena was progressively reduced, occupying smaller and smaller 'gaps' in knowledge. This line of reasoning commonly holds that since the domain of natural phenomena previously explained by God is shrinking, theistic or divine explanations for any natural phenomenon become less plausible.

[NemoySpruce]

ahehe.. classic strategy po na yan ginagawa ninyo. it is commonly known as "moving the goal posts". if i explain why the moon is round, you will ask another question, then another.. until i run out of answers. then you will simply say.. its because God made it. then i will just refer you back to my original post. Science does not claim to know how everything was made. Its just theories and observations. :D


@NemuySPruce

:D bahala ka...eh paano mo ngayon mapapaliwanag kung bakit ang moon eh bilog baket hindi triangle?in short, nature.

[may_abe]

:D sa totoo lang mahina ako sa science na subject eh...kaya nga Salamat po kay God ipinasa nya ako...peace po tayo Papa NemoySpruce..

[NemoySpruce]

ako din mahina (or tamad mag aral) sa ibang subjeks ko nun. pero thanks to my genius seatmate, hindi nya tinakpan test paper nya, naka pasa ako. hehehe. may isa akong kaklase, may Tourette's Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourette_syndrome) kaya naka sagot din ako. hehehe. Peace be with you din pow.

:D sa totoo lang mahina ako sa science na subject eh...kaya nga Salamat po kay God ipinasa nya ako...peace po tayo Papa NemoySpruce..

[shiawase]

I am a Chrisrian so until now, i believe in God. But as i grew up, questions began to formulate in my mind... If God created EVERYTHING (humans, animals, planets, stars, sun, oceans, etc...), this only means that God has a great powerful magic! He can do everything possibly. But why do He let people suffer? Why do He let people kill people? Why do accidents happen? Why do He let people kill by nature like floods, volcano eruptions, typhoon, hurricane, etc..? and many more. He could just use "this magical power" to make everything peaceful as what this world badly needs. Our thread starter said that 'Denying the existence of God is similar to a child who denies the existence of his parents'. Okay, it could be... But how can we deny the existence of things that we can see with our own naked eyes? In short, we can prove that we have parents because we grew up with them. And how about God? How can we prove His existence? Is it because this is the faith that the Bible told us? If the church and the preachers who believe in God are spreading this 'faith' to every land, why God don't just show himself to all people so it would be simplier. Im not an 'anti-Christ' but i can't blame myself to questioned Him... There is a phrase, "To see is to believe." That's why in a trial court, a case that has lot of witnesses wins. Just like me, i like to see God and witness His great power right in my own eyes so i can confidently say 'Yes, God truly exist.' Don't you guys think of this sometimes?

C'mon, let's not underestimate science. Science cure sick people, science can see the outer world, science can see the deepest part of the sea, it can even explain why we breathe, or why do our hearts beat... and with science, we now understand how we are form inside our mother's womb.... We all know this because we have seen this, and because there's a reasonable explanation. The theory of evolution can be possible, there are fossils found that have lived million years ago which are said the origin of humans. Science explained that all living things were all came from microscopic cells that have formed in the sea where all minerals are present and we are just a cell when our life begins inside our mother's womb. So, if there's truth or fact, which is one? God or science? ;)

[sarpon]

sa kahit anong debate ng faith & science di pwedeng matalo ang science. kasi nga tangible sya o nakikita samantalang ang faith is something that we just believe and hold on to.

sa mga questions nyo like "bakit me suffering kung me God?", di ko rin alam ang sagot dyan. tinatanong ko rin yan minsan sa sarili ko lalo na kung me nakikita akong mga batang naghihirap.

Yes, most religions are flawed. Even the people that are supposed to be "man of GOD" are sometimes flawed. but that should not stop us from doubting our faith that GOD exist.

Sa mga hindi naniniwala, ayos lang yan. Its you choice.

basta ako I refuse to believe na ang buhay natin dito ay matatapos na once na huminto tayong huminga.... alam ko meron pang naghihintay sa ating mas maganda.

yun lang po...:O

[NemoySpruce]

These are very good arguments shiawase san :D many people have asked questions like that before, its similar to this one;

If God was Almighty and All knowing, then when he creates a person, he already knows if that person will go to heaven or hell. If that person goes to hell, why did God create him in the first place?

I have no answers to these questions, but it does not mean God does not exist. It just means we dont understand whats going on. And we wont find out if we are too afraid to ask questions. Hold on to your beliefs, but keep an open mind. If you are afraid of losing your faith, that means your faith is not that strong.

For me, faith is a journey. the moment you stop, and say I already know what i need to know, at that moment your faith ends as well.



I am a Chrisrian so until now, i believe in God. But as i grew up, questions began to formulate in my mind... If God created EVERYTHING (humans, animals, planets, stars, sun, oceans, etc...), this only means that God has a great powerful magic! He can do everything possibly. But why do He let people suffer? Why do He let people kill people? Why do accidents happen? Why do He let people kill by nature like floods, volcano eruptions, typhoon, hurricane, etc..? and many more. He could just use "this magical power" to make everything peaceful as what this world badly needs. Our thread starter said that 'Denying the existence of God is similar to a child who denies the existence of his parents'. Okay, it could be... But how can we deny the existence of things that we can see with our own naked eyes?....

[itchay]

^Very well said, NemoySpruce.
It's all in the faith of the individual.
Science may be gaining on faith, but science still has a lot of ground to cover.
And I always feel that there is this invisible power that keeps everything in one piece.

I, myself, must first reveal I'm a Catholic since birth, but sadly not a regular churchgoer anymore. And I also must confess that there were times I found other religions tempting. And maybe, I can also safely say that the temptation to convert is really sitting squat in front of me, nearer compared to most of our brothers and sisters here who are just observing the other faiths from a bit more distance than me. I can say this because my elder sister is a Born-Again Christian, a very active one. She's into Evangelizing even. My younger sister naman is a Buddhist, she belongs to Souka Gakkai, also an active follower.(So you can just imagine what we talk about half of the time when I get to talk with them.) They used to be Catholics like me. But I respected their decisions when they converted to their new religions. They've even become better persons after they experienced the renewal of faith. (Ako na lang yata hindi:hihi:)

Anyway, to make the story short...Years passed, with those "salvations" hovering near me, but here I am still a "pitiful" Catholic. :D (I sometimes wonder why...ahihi, joke). My point is, the very close encounters I've had with these other faiths, has made me realize that there is no better or lesser religion. All religions are the same. They aim for the good. They try to be good. But alas, all have flaws as well. And also, pardon my saying this, these faiths, even my own, tend to be exclusive. That must be why, in the extreme, zealots are born.

By being continually exposed to these "other elements", I feel like I'm that diamond in the furnace. (Feel lang naman :D) My faith is even stronger now. I realized I don't need conversion to strengthen my faith.

BUT, I am not close-minded. Whenever I have questions about faith, I just don't rely on my Bible, and what my Church says. It's already my habit to ask my sisters as well about it.:halo:

[shiawase]

Thanks nemoyspruce for your explanation... Anyway, it's not that im losing my faith im believing since childhood and until now i reached this age but there are just questions circling around my head. Im very open-minded person that's why i always want to clarify things first before i move on to the next side of the story. I don't particularly say that God doesn't exist because i, myself cannot prove this also. That's why there are questions.... :confused:

If there's no reason to doubt then what's the reason to believe? ;)

[Stacie Fil]

I am a Chrisrian so until now, i believe in God. But as i grew up, questions began to formulate in my mind... If God created EVERYTHING (humans, animals, planets, stars, sun, oceans, etc...), this only means that God has a great powerful magic! He can do everything possibly. But why do He let people suffer? Why do He let people kill people? Why do accidents happen? Why do He let people kill by nature like floods, volcano eruptions, typhoon, hurricane, etc..? and many more. He could just use "this magical power" to make everything peaceful as what this world badly needs. Our thread starter said that 'Denying the existence of God is similar to a child who denies the existence of his parents'. Okay, it could be... But how can we deny the existence of things that we can see with our own naked eyes? In short, we can prove that we have parents because we grew up with them.(Hey, you forgot the orphans) And how about God? How can we prove His existence? Is it because this is the faith that the Bible told us? If the church and the preachers who believe in God are spreading this 'faith' to every land, why God don't just show himself to all people so it would be simplier. Im not an 'anti-Christ' but i can't blame myself to questioned Him... There is a phrase, "To see is to believe." That's why in a trial court, a case that has lot of witnesses wins. Just like me, i like to see God and witness His great power right in my own eyes so i can confidently say 'Yes, God truly exist.' Don't you guys think of this sometimes?

C'mon, let's not underestimate science. Science cure sick people, science can see the outer world, science can see the deepest part of the sea, it can even explain why we breathe, or why do our hearts beat... and with science, we now understand how we are form inside our mother's womb.... We all know this because we have seen this, and because there's a reasonable explanation. The theory of evolution can be possible, there are fossils found that have lived million years ago which are said the origin of humans. Science explained that all living things were all came from microscopic cells that have formed in the sea where all minerals are present and we are just a cell when our life begins inside our mother's womb. So, if there's truth or fact, which is one? God or science? ;)

:D So, what affinity are you in? Ha,ha,ha, nagbibiro lang po, alam ko na typo error lang yan.

You remind me of myself when I was young. Lots of questions, never run out.

As you had said; "If God created everything...?". You know what that means? If God created everything, means process. Hence its not magic as we often expect.

When you said everything. Can you imagine how long it would take a man to walk around the world? How about walking all over every place, like continent, every nation, state, city streets..then all part of the sea, above and under? Can a man do it in his lifetime? What more outside our planet or solar system, or galaxy...then to the next...

Not to discredit science. Even if science could all throughout study completely all this things...this are just what He had made...and remind you, still expanding. So how can we expect science to study or know about God, when it doesn't even yet touching the essential realm. Yaon pa lamang mga gawa niya ang napag aaralan nang syensya, kaya't pasensya na muna tayo, hane.:O

If only we can put God under a microscope...you might think. If only all things would fossilized...and be discover.

Do you really crave to see God? Are you really ready to come in front of Him? (Gusto mo talagang subukan? Sige, makikita mo tama kami.:D Ha,ha,ha, wag ha, nagbibiro lang. ) Are you complete to exist where He reside? Remind you, many spiritual beings come back because thier lifetime is not yet enough or they are not yet prepared to meet with thier creator. One reason why there are ideas like reincarnation, etc... Don't you feel lucky youre not infront of God right now?:p Lets learn and grow more.

Don't we really feel better and comforted that God is not that small and not seen physical/biologically.

You see, its not true that you really have to see as to believe. Siguro hindi ka malikot nuong araw ano. :lol: :roll: Have you ever played some metal stuff like coins,hair pins, nails, electrical wire, then stuck it into an outlet?:fire: Kita mo naaaah! Natawa ka ba? Korni no?

Remind you, only recently doctors accept/believe the idea that appendic's(tama ba spell?) purpose is to reserve/keep good bacteria in the intestine. How about our tonsil, they asked? Many ask about its purpose, when they say we can live even without it?

Remember the story of the small boy trying to fill the whole ocean into his small self made well. We have more to do before science learn its limit and understand that it was only made or device by men as tool to learn about the resultant world. Not to explain God the causal being. This I say not to escape the queston regarding the existence of God. Perhaps not science as the one suitable to explain the matters relating Gods' essence and other things such as Love, Life, conscience, etc.

If you want a truth, a living fact to prove Gods presence or existence. Try looking in front of a mirror and you shall find one.


:)

[shiawase]

Hi Mod Stacie Fil... Thank you for your humorous enlightenment there. ;) But berore i speak again for myself, where was the part i commited a 'typo error'? :confused: Sorry ha, medyo antok lang, hehehe...:D

[Stacie Fil]

Sa unahan po nuong unang post mo (quoted above) na-highlighted ko in the response.
First sentence.

[shiawase]

Oh i see..... Na by-pass ko yun ah! :p Kaw mod ha, pilosopo ka.... ;)

[NemoySpruce]

BUT, I am not close-minded. Whenever I have questions about faith, I just don't rely on my Bible, and what my Church says. It's already my habit to ask my sisters as well about it.

Thats very good to hear itchay san. I also have many friends who follow a different path. buddhist, jewish, atheists, even sunni Islam some are even Jedi(j/k)... We have very interesting conversations because they are also open minded. they know that some parts of our beliefs conflict, but for the most part its all similar. There are actually a lot christians can learn from muslims and buddhists and other religion.


If there's no reason to doubt then what's the reason to believe? ;)

eksakli!!. Ok yun ah, I like that line. Pwede ba magamit ko yan minsan, paheram ha. hehe

[shiawase]

:D So, what affinity are you in? Ha,ha,ha, nagbibiro lang po, alam ko na typo error lang yan.

You remind me of myself when I was young. Lots of questions, never run out.

As you had said; "If God created everything...?". You know what that means? If God created everything, means process. Hence its not magic as we often expect.

When you said everything. Can you imagine how long it would take a man to walk around the world? How about walking all over every place, like continent, every nation, state, city streets..then all part of the sea, above and under? Can a man do it in his lifetime? What more outside our planet or solar system, or galaxy...then to the next...



:)
In that part, i said it is a "great powerful magic" so hindi lang po siya basta magic, powerful din. But what do you mean by process? How God can create a huge mass of hot, glowing gas which is the sun by process? Do you mean He worked hard to create the sun without even getting burn? And yet, it's not a powerful magic? Forgive me for my questions mod ha, ika mo nga, matanong talaga ako. ;)

[shiawase]

eksakli!!. Ok yun ah, I like that line. Pwede ba magamit ko yan minsan, paheram ha. hehe



Hahaha! Pinatawa mo naman ako. Oo ba, basta huwag mo akong kalilimutan kapag yumaman ka dahil sa line na yan ha!? Joking. :lol: :wink: