Should Christians drink alcohol and smoke tobacco? [Archive] - Timog Forum

lakandula

12-04-2007, 03:33 PM

Nararapat bang uminom ng nakalalasing na inumin at manigarilyo ang isang Cristiano?

The Word of God says?

Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are. --1 Cor 3:16-17

Ang ating katawan ay templo ng Dios, at ang gumigiba ng katawan (templo) ay gigibain din ng Dios.

THEREFORE I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. --Romans 12:1

Gaya ng mga hain noong unang panahon, ang mga hayop na inihahain sa Dios ay dapat walang bahid o dungis o sakit, gayun din ang habilin sa atin sa pag-aalay natin ng ating katawan para sa Dios na siyang ispirituwal na pagsamba. (Numbers 19:2, Exodus 12:5)

Ang mga uri ng sakit na makukuha sa tobacco:

Cancer:

Smoking causes cancers of the bladder, oral cavity, pharynx, larynx (voice box), esophagus, cervix, kidney, lung, pancreas, and stomach, and causes acute myeloid leukemia.

Heart Disease:

Cigarette smoking causes reduced circulation by narrowing the blood vessels (arteries). Smokers are more than 10 times as likely as nonsmokers to develop peripheral vascular disease.

Respiratory Disease:

Cigarette smoking has many adverse reproductive and early childhood effects, including an increased risk for infertility, preterm delivery, stillbirth, low birth weight, and sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).

click here for more (http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/Factsheets/health_effects.htm)

Alcoholic drinks & pregnant women:

Prenatal exposure to alcohol can cause a range of disorders, known as fetal alcohol spectrum disorders (FASDs). One of the most severe effects of drinking during pregnancy is fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS). FAS is one of the leading known preventable causes of mental retardation and birth defects. If a woman drinks alcohol during her pregnancy, her baby can be born with FAS, a lifelong condition that causes physical and mental disabilities. FAS is characterized by abnormal facial features, growth deficiencies, and central nervous system (CNS) problems.

click here for more (http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fas/fasask.htm)

Alcohol affects many organ systems of the body, but perhaps most notably affected are the central nervous system and the liver. Almost all ingested alcohol is metabolized in the liver and excessive alcohol use can lead to acute and chronic liver disease. Liver cirrhosis resulting from alcohol abuse is one of the ten leading causes of death in the United States.

alcohol induced liver disease (http://www.cumc.columbia.ed u/dept/gi/alcohol.html)

alcohol and the brain (http://www.at-bristol.org.uk/alcoholandyou/Effects/brain.html)

Death in the kitchen

click here (http://www.amazingfacts.org/FreeStuff/OnlineLibrary/tabid/106/ctl/ViewMedia/mid/447/IID/61/LNG/en/7/Death-in-the-Kitchen/SC/R/Default.aspx)

schelle

12-04-2007, 03:37 PM

para skin okey lng..hehehe kasi mismong lolo ko na pare lasingero at nag tatabako:eek::biglau gh:hangang ngayon malakas pa naman sya..hehehehehe..mah ilig pa sa pub ..YAYKS!..totoo po..:O

lakandula

12-04-2007, 03:42 PM

timbog

12-04-2007, 03:43 PM

christians now is more liberated than before.. so ok lang yan.. pero kung ibabase mo sa bible.. hindi parin bawal ang alak dba?..

maraming ng open minded na tao ngaun.. :D

schelle

12-04-2007, 03:49 PM

pare? as in priest? mahilig sa pub? naiiba siya ha :)

oo naman pare..:)kaya pinapagalitan ng anak nya..hehehehe..kaka loka nga ung lolo nmin..

KikoyBalayon

12-04-2007, 03:50 PM

itanung mo yan sa parish priest namin dati.. umiinom yun at naninigarilyo pagkatapos ng misa.. alam ko yun dahil sakristan ako nung bata pa...

summergirl

12-04-2007, 03:53 PM

Kahit uminom kahit hindi,it doesnt make any sense sa agiging christian..<Its only my opinion>

kakkoii_daw

12-04-2007, 03:54 PM

para skin okey lng..hehehe kasi mismong lolo ko na pare lasingero at nag tatabako:eek::biglau gh:hangang ngayon malakas pa naman sya..hehehehehe..mah ilig pa sa pub ..YAYKS!..totoo po..:O

ayos si father ah... hehe... :biglaugh:
di naman masama uminom ng alkohol at magyosi... wag lang nya ikukwento mga ikinumpisal sa kanya pag nalasing sya... waaaa... heeheee :hihi:

KikoyBalayon

12-04-2007, 04:01 PM

let me challenge you on this one ok?

it was never mentioned in the bible that smoking was prohibited..
even Jesus drank wine... well he could have been a little tipsy that time..(why do we have mass wines in the first place?) :D

regarding your facts presented.. although smoking and too much drinking can "destroy" your body.. and with that also is the "temple of the holy spirit"...

how about eating too much fatty foods such as lechon?
stress from work, lack of sleep.. exposure to polluted air?

and.. i think the appropriate title of your post would be.. "is it okay for "Christians to drink alcohol and smoke tobacco?"

and no! i am not endorsing anyone to smoke or drink just because i do it and i am a "christian"

lakandula

12-04-2007, 06:04 PM

it was never mentioned in the bible that smoking was prohibited..
even Jesus drank wine... well he could have been a little tipsy that time..(why do we have mass wines in the first place?) :D

how about eating too much fatty foods such as lechon?
stress from work, lack of sleep.. exposure to polluted air?

that's a very good question, siguro hindi pa naiimbento ang yosi noon kaya di na-mention but we all agree that tobacco is a poison to our body and it is against God's will that we destroy ourselves. nabasa ko dati that there are about 2000 kinds of chemicals found in tobacco and 66 of them are poisonous.

regarding wine, in our time when we hear or read the word wine we think of inebriating wine, but in the bible the word "wine" is used interchangeably to denote grape juice and intoxicating wine.

sa "last supper" ni Jesus, He used the words fruit of the vine, to make sure that He meant the grape juice (maybe because He knows that in the future man will think it is the intoxicating wine)

about fatty foods naman, I've posted the link "death in the kitchen", kasi what we eat can kill us in the end (like super cholesterol lechon) may nakausap nga ako na ang pinsan niya namatay at the age of 24 dahil sa heart attack...akala ko dati ang sakit sa puso pang-matanda lang.

a little trivia - bakit jigger (tama ba term ko?) ang gamit sa eucharist to drink the wine? answer - dahil nga sa ang paniniwala ay alak na nakalalasing ang tinutukoy sa bible, pinaliit ang baso para di malasing ang mga nagsisimba :D

sitsukoime

12-04-2007, 06:32 PM

christians now is more liberated than before.. so ok lang yan.. pero kung ibabase mo sa bible.. hindi parin bawal ang alak dba?..

maraming ng open minded na tao ngaun.. :D

I agree with u.;) Ska db ang pari nainom ng wine sa part ng mass...??:confused: So...??

lakandula

12-04-2007, 07:37 PM

The alcohol found in beverages such as beer, wine, and brandy is ethanol (C2H5OH), a clear, highly flammable liquid that has a burning taste and a characteristic ethereal odor.

Anong mangyayari kung iinumin natin ito? Well, death usually occurs if the concentration of ethanol in the bloodstream exceeds about five percent! But even for those who use it sparingly, immediate behavioral changes, impairment of vision and judgment, and unconsciousness can occur at lower concentrations.

adechan

12-04-2007, 07:51 PM

Sa abot nang alam ko, wine lang yata ang puwede nating inumin. Pero may dalawang uri pa rin nang wine. Iyun yong tinatawag na fermented and unfermented wine.

Iyung ginawa ni Jesus Christ na wine sa kasalan is considered as unfermented wine.

Not to drink alcohol is an act of obedience.

Kung tayo ay susunod lang sa tamang kautusan, ang isang Kristiyano ay nararapat na umiwas at tuluyang huwag nang uminom nang alak o anumang inumin na may alkohol, kung hangga't maaari.

In my case, there are cases, I can't resist drinking some liquors occasionally, lalo na pag mga formal kampai events here in Japan, I drink just for some cheers, lalo na hindi naman mga Kristiyano ang mga ka cheers ko.

Ang matuwid na Kristiyano ay dapat daw mas piliin ang malasing sa Holy Spirit kesa malasing sa espiritu nang alak.

NemoySpruce

12-05-2007, 09:59 AM

I think christians should read the bible and contemplate. If they decide that drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco is wrong, then they should refrain from doing so. They do not have the right to tell other christians not to smoke or drink. If other christians read the bible and feel it is ok to drink or smoke in moderation, then that is ok. Drinking and smoking are personal freedoms. I choose not to smoke, because i dont like what it does to my lungs. But on occasion I can smoke if I want to. And y'all know i drink :) The logic that any substance that harms the body should not be imbibed is flawed. Any food taken in is actually harmful to the body. Oxygen is harmful to the body. Every breath you take, takes you closer to death. So if you really want to keep yourself pure, immerse yourself in formalin and then cryogenically freeze yourself. I do admire those that do not drink and do not smoke because they feel healthier, and not because they think it is sinful. Alcohol and tobacco are bad. But they are part of what it is to be human. Drink moderately :) wag mag lulupasay sa banketa...

KikoyBalayon

12-05-2007, 11:10 AM

Wreinman

12-05-2007, 12:13 PM

oo naman pare..:)kaya pinapagalitan ng anak nya..hehehehe..kaka loka nga ung lolo nmin..
u mean ex-priest? :)

lakandula

12-05-2007, 11:06 PM

Sa abot nang alam ko, wine lang yata ang puwede nating inumin. Pero may dalawang uri pa rin nang wine. Iyun yong tinatawag na fermented and unfermented wine.

you are correct, sa OT (hebrew text) the word TIROSH means unfermented wine while YAYIN generally is used to describe fermented wine (exception: Isa 16:10)

sa NT (greek text) the word used to describe both fermented and unfermented wine is OINOS, but it's not a problem since we can understand it by reading the context.

ang fermented wine ang nakalalasing at ito ang pinagbabawal ng bible.

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. --1 Cor 6:10

NemoySpruce

12-06-2007, 09:11 AM

Wreinman

12-06-2007, 10:37 AM

pwedeng uminom hwag lang lulunukin! harharhar joke lang :D

NemoySpruce

12-06-2007, 10:41 AM

pwedeng uminom hwag lang lulunukin! harharhar joke lang :D

hehe. sa yosi naman. pwede hithit...pero bawal buga.:D

infinite_trial

12-06-2007, 11:34 AM

Wreinman

12-06-2007, 01:10 PM

Proverbs chapter 23 (TEV)

19 Listen, my child, be wise and give serious thought to the way you live. 20 Don't associate with people who drink too much wine or stuff themselves with food. 21 Drunkards and gluttons will be reduced to poverty. If all you do is eat and sleep, you will soon be wearing rags.

29 Show me people who drink too much, who have to try out fancy drinks, and I will show you people who are miserable and sorry for themselves, always causing trouble and always complaining. Their eyes are bloodshot, and they have bruises that could have been avoided.
31 Don't let wine tempt you, even though it is rich red, and it sparkles in the cup, and it goes down smoothly. 32 The next morning you will feel as if you had been bitten by a poisonous snake. 33 Weird sights will appear before your eyes, and you will not be able to think or speak clearly. 34 You will feel as if you were out on the ocean, seasick, swinging high up in the rigging of a tossing ship. 35 "I must have been hit," you will say; "I must have been beaten up, but I don't remember it. Why can't I wake up? I need another drink."

groging nagsasalita:

mashama daw ang maglashing (*hik*) shabi sha baybol. :D

umadzkun

12-06-2007, 01:29 PM

sa pagkakaalam ko kasi, ang kasalanan ay ang paglalasing. hindi ang pag inom. tama ba ako?

pupuwede kang uminom ng alak or any alcoholic drinks, pero bawal ang magpakalasing. yun ang sa pagkakaalam kong nai-state sa bible.

sa paninigarilyo naman, bawal for health reasons. but for reasons other than health (especially what is statement from the bible), kenkyu-chu- pa ako.

adechan

12-06-2007, 04:22 PM

Proverbs chapter 23 (TEV)

19 Listen, my child, be wise and give serious thought to the way you live. 20 Don't associate with people who drink too much wine or stuff themselves with food. 21 Drunkards and gluttons will be reduced to poverty. If all you do is eat and sleep, you will soon be wearing rags.

29 Show me people who drink too much, who have to try out fancy drinks, and I will show you people who are miserable and sorry for themselves, always causing trouble and always complaining. Their eyes are bloodshot, and they have bruises that could have been avoided.
31 Don't let wine tempt you, even though it is rich red, and it sparkles in the cup, and it goes down smoothly. 32 The next morning you will feel as if you had been bitten by a poisonous snake. 33 Weird sights will appear before your eyes, and you will not be able to think or speak clearly. 34 You will feel as if you were out on the ocean, seasick, swinging high up in the rigging of a tossing ship. 35 "I must have been hit," you will say; "I must have been beaten up, but I don't remember it. Why can't I wake up? I need another drink."

additional verse
found this

Leviticus 10:8-11
And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying,
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

~~~
well, I need to make some reflection as well in regards of my occassional drinking

bluesapphire

12-06-2007, 05:58 PM

opinion lang po.. depende po sa conviction nyo yon.. in the world's language konsensya.. if na ko convict and isang tao about drinking liquor, wag na lang po uminom ng alak.. i could not say perfectly be very spiritual,kaya lang kasi, we still live in this world..ask the the Lord's guidance na lang on this and in everything we do..:)

lakandula

12-06-2007, 09:10 PM

unfermented wine..haha. thats like saying, unfermented nato. or roasted sashimi... piniritong kare-kare. masama ang kare-kare..pero pag pinirito mo ito, okay lang :) Unfermented wine is grape juice, its not wine yet.

Ano ba ang pinagbabawal ng bibliya? ang pag-inom ng alak? o alcohol? or specific na wine lang ang bawal? sa pagkakaalam ko kasi, ang kasalanan ay ang paglalasing. hindi ang pag inom. tama ba ako?

nakakalito nga kung anong wine, gaya ng nabanggit ko nung una, sa bible ay specific ang words na ginamit - TIROSH, YAYIN, OINOS - pero ng i-translate sa english ay WINE lahat ang ginamit. eh sa panahon natin kapag sinabing wine ay fermented wine na agad ang ibig sabihin nito but there was a time (early 1900s) that the word wine could mean GRAPE JUICE & ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE (fermented)

lakandula

12-06-2007, 09:19 PM

if you notice the quote:

THEREFORE I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. --Romans 12:1

wala naman sinabi na mismong wine and tobacco ang bawal. therefore, lahat ng masama sa ating katawan ay bawal kung strictly natin susundin ang quote na to. bawal magpatis, magvetsin, matatabang pagkain, etc...

but i agree with nemoy. to smoke/drink or not to smoke/drink is a personal choice. walang kinalaman ito sa religion. we should drink or smoke moderately because it's for our health.

opo, you are correct na maraming nakasasama sa ating katawan but I just want to focus muna sa leading cause ng diseases which can affect our spiritual worship of presenting our bodies as holy sacrifice.

romans 12:1 alludes to the ceremonial sacrifices done in ancient times, it has something to do with worship kaya po it has something to do with religion.

la_tina512

12-06-2007, 09:28 PM

As far as I am concerned and from what I understand ang sinasabi sa Bible huwag magpakalasing that you would put yourself to shame. Kahit naman kasi si Jesus sa New Testament uminom ng wine. It was there that His first miracle occurred, when he turned the water to wine. Kasi kung bawal uminom hindi na Niya dapat pang ginawang wine yong tubig to satisfy the people's needs who were drinking that time. I am not a legalistic Christian, as long as I don't put my faith and myself to shame, wala namang masamang uminom. Sabi nga depende sa conviction ng isang Christian. I drink occasionally (beer) pero pampatulog lang at mag-isa lang ako. Isang bote lang naman hilo na ako :D.

With regards to cigarettes wala namang part sa Bible na sinabing bawal manigarilyo. Ang sinasabi roon ingatan ang katawan na templo ng banal na Espiritu. So kailangang ingatan ng bawat isang Kristyano ang kanyang katawan hindi lang sa pag-inom at paninigarilyo (health) kundi ang moral aspect din nito (immorality, which is having sex not with wife/husband or without the benefit of marriage, or anything na makakasira sa katauhan ng isang Kristyano).

lakandula

12-06-2007, 09:43 PM

The Wedding in Cana:

This was Jesus' first miracle. The question is "Did Jesus made water into GRAPE JUICE or INTOXICATING WINE?

John 2:6 - There were six pots for Jesus to fill, and each of those would hold 20 to 30 gallons. That's up to 180 gallons of beverage!

Ang wedding feast noon can last up to 1-2 weeks, if Jesus was really a God bakit pinahintulutan Niya na malasing ang mga tao kasama ang mga maliliit na bata for 2 weeks? If Jesus was really a God, hindi ba Niya nakita ang future na dahil sa Kanya ay maraming buhay ang masisira dahil sa alak?

Andiyan ang na-rape ng lasing, ng lasing na ama, napatay ng lasing, naaksidente kasi lasing and so on. Kahit 1 shot lang can affect our decisions. I know what I am saying...I used to drink, thank God He changed me.

And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit. -Ephesians 5:18

NemoySpruce

12-07-2007, 08:56 AM

nakakalito nga kung anong wine, gaya ng nabanggit ko nung una, sa bible ay specific ang words na ginamit - TIROSH, YAYIN, OINOS - pero ng i-translate sa english ay WINE lahat ang ginamit. eh sa panahon natin kapag sinabing wine ay fermented wine na agad ang ibig sabihin nito but there was a time (early 1900s) that the word wine could mean GRAPE JUICE & ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE (fermented)

bali po, ang tirosh, yayin at oinos .. lahat po ay gawa sa grapes? so bawal lang po inumin ay ang fermented grape juice? bali okey lang po ba ang whiskey, tequilla, beer..etc.? may nakasabi po ba sa bible na, thou shall not drink the fermented juice of the agave plant?

lakandula

12-07-2007, 08:03 PM

bali po, ang tirosh, yayin at oinos .. lahat po ay gawa sa grapes? so bawal lang po inumin ay ang fermented grape juice? bali okey lang po ba ang whiskey, tequilla, beer..etc.? may nakasabi po ba sa bible na, thou shall not drink the fermented juice of the agave plant?

not necessarily grape juice lang po, kasi ang beer sa ancient egypt meron na nun.

there are verses that used the word SHEKAR and translated STRONG DRINK in the english language, sa unang tingin ang mga salitang "matapang na inumin" ay parang sinasabing matapang na alak (ex. gin, whiskey) pero ang ibig sabihin pala nito ay "matamis na inumin". ito ang dahilan kaya sabi ng iba ay maaaring uminom ng "matapang na alak" dahil pwede sa bible.

the english word SUGAR came from the word SHEKAR.

french - sucre
arabic - sukkar
persian - shakar
spanish - azukar
tagalog - asukal
german - zucker
italian - zucchero

lakandula

12-08-2007, 12:20 PM

TEMPTATION

It is also a well-documented fact that drinking kahit kakaunting alcohol impairs our reactions and weakens normal inhibitions. Alcohol is a way satan uses to trap us into sinning.

Put simply, it lowers a Christian's resolve to resist temptation. Why would any Christian want to make it easier for the devil to snare them? Maraming nagigising na lamang after drinking at nagugulat sa nagawa nilang bagay na hindi na maibabalik.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. -James 4:7

schelle

12-08-2007, 01:49 PM

u mean ex-priest? :)

nde..priest hangang ngayon:)

alexb

12-08-2007, 06:06 PM

ayos si father ah... hehe... :biglaugh:
di naman masama uminom ng alkohol at magyosi... wag lang nya ikukwento mga ikinumpisal sa kanya pag nalasing sya... waaaa... heeheee :hihi:

hahaha....yun nga ang problema, di ba may kasabihan "en vino veritas" (tama ba?) "there is truth in wine"....malamang naikwento na niya sa mga kainuman niya ang mga ikinumpisal sa kanya :lol:

alexb

12-08-2007, 06:17 PM

WINE is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise -Prov 20:1

snsk76

12-08-2007, 09:51 PM

:rolleyes: Ok lang po ang uminom ng alcohol basta hindi po nating hahayaang kontrolin ang alak ang ating pag iisip...

lakandula

12-09-2007, 01:09 PM

dodonpa

12-09-2007, 01:43 PM

Alcohol - can cause persistent liver injury

Alcohol leads to an assortment of diseases in the liver. In the US 10 % of men and 3 % of women may have liver problems due to chronic alcohol abuse. In the Western world, alcohol is the leading underlying cause of liver disease. The three main conditions that can result in liver failure due to alcohol abuse are:

click here (http://biomed.brown.edu/Courses/BI108/BI108_2002_Groups/liver/webpage/Patholiver.htm)

pics of a healthy lung & a smoker's lung (http://www.scienceclarified .com/Ci-Co/Cigarette-Smoke.html)

Drinkers should always remember the word moderation. Too much of anything will always lead to something bad.

alcohol's benefits
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/heart/2001-12-19-wine.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_ and_health

As to smoking well moderation doesn't quite do it...
but for your entertainment I found this

Shortly after blood-sucking leeches went out of style, 19th-century doctors embraced an equally bizarre remedy for some ailments: cigarettes and pipes packed with tobacco. Amazingly, doctors often prescribed this "cure" to patients with asthma. According to the strange logic of old-time medicine, patients could breathe easier if they got enough healing smoke in their lungs.

from here (http://www.ahealthyme.com/topic/asthmasmoke)

lakandula

12-09-2007, 03:34 PM

Since red wine is also from red grapes that's why it also have the benefits of the grape juice. But the alcohol content is the problem.

"What's more, alcoholic drinks don't seem to improve the function of cells in blood vessel linings the way grape juice does. And alcohol generates free radicals -- unstable oxygen molecules that can actually cause damage to blood vessel tissues -- dampening any of the benefits that red wine's antioxidants may offer." -CNN Report

Same Heart Benefits? (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-and-nutrition/AN00576)

Grape Juice Beats Wine in New Antioxidant Tests (http://www.medicalnewstoday .com/articles/15553.php)

alexb

12-10-2007, 12:15 AM

Woe to men mighty at drinking wine, Woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink. --Isaiah 5:22

But they also have erred through wine, And through intoxicating drink are out of the way; The priest and the prophet have erred through intoxicating drink, They are swallowed up by wine, They are out of the way through intoxicating drink; They err in vision, they stumble in judgment. --Isaiah 28:7

NemoySpruce

12-10-2007, 11:18 AM

Alcohol - can cause persistent liver injury

Alcohol leads to an assortment of diseases in the liver. In the US 10 % of men and 3 % of women may have liver problems due to chronic alcohol abuse. In the Western world, alcohol is the leading underlying cause of liver disease. The three main conditions that can result in liver failure due to alcohol abuse are:

click here (http://biomed.brown.edu/Courses/BI108/BI108_2002_Groups/liver/webpage/Patholiver.htm)

pics of a healthy lung & a smoker's lung (http://www.scienceclarified .com/Ci-Co/Cigarette-Smoke.html)

Yes you are correct. Too much alcohol can cause a lot of health problems, drinking in moderation is advised even by producers of alcoholic beverages. Same for smoking, there is a reason why each pack has a warning from a guy named Surgeon General. He says smoking is hazardous to your health.

I dont read the bible as much as you do. Is there a verse there that specifically says drinking 'alcohol' and smoking 'tobacco' is a sin? meaning if you do it, then you burn in hell forever and ever, until the end of time, and even if time ends, then gets reborn, you will still spend it in hell because you drank alcohol. Or is it just wine?

Or is there a verse that says alcohol is the tool of the devil? then it should be purged from existence should it not? are you saying that any mind altering substance is evil? along with morphine, cannabis, some mushrooms... sweetscrazy's hooka? probably even caffeine? if it is evil....why did God make these things? did you ever wonder about that?

lakandula

12-10-2007, 08:25 PM

Yes you are correct. Too much alcohol can cause a lot of health problems, drinking in moderation is advised even by producers of alcoholic beverages. Same for smoking, there is a reason why each pack has a warning from a guy named Surgeon General. He says smoking is hazardous to your health.

I dont read the bible as much as you do. Is there a verse there that specifically says drinking 'alcohol' and smoking 'tobacco' is a sin? meaning if you do it, then you burn in hell forever and ever, until the end of time, and even if time ends, then gets reborn, you will still spend it in hell because you drank alcohol. Or is it just wine?

Or is there a verse that says alcohol is the tool of the devil? then it should be purged from existence should it not? are you saying that any mind altering substance is evil? along with morphine, cannabis, some mushrooms... sweetscrazy's hooka? probably even caffeine? if it is evil....why did God make these things? did you ever wonder about that?

Sir, here are some verses I hope will answer your questions

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. --1 Cor 6:10
(if drunkards won't go to heaven, then they must be going the other way)

All unrighteousness is sin.... -1 John 5:17
(if drinking inebriating beverage even in moderation is unrighteous, then it is a sin. but for me as a christian I believe drinking even moderately is unrighteous)

Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. -James 4:17
(if we know that it is good that we should keep our bodies healthy and do otherwise, it is a sin unto us)

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. -1 Peter 5:8
(being sober is the opposite of being drunk, as the verse says, we keep sober or else we'll be taken by the devil)

if the wine contains alcohol, the alcohol will affect our body negatively, pure grape juice is the best.

God did not create alcoholic beverages, man did by fermenting the juice. regarding cannabis etc, I believe God made them for a purpose other than using it to cloud our minds, man corrupted them.

Wik

12-10-2007, 09:41 PM

SIGURADO BA KAYO DYAN?

hehehe...joke lang po

NemoySpruce

12-11-2007, 11:38 AM

Sir, here are some verses I hope will answer your questions

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. --1 Cor 6:10
(if drunkards won't go to heaven, then they must be going the other way)

All unrighteousness is sin.... -1 John 5:17
(if drinking inebriating beverage even in moderation is unrighteous, then it is a sin. but for me as a christian I believe drinking even moderately is unrighteous)

Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. -James 4:17
(if we know that it is good that we should keep our bodies healthy and do otherwise, it is a sin unto us)

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. -1 Peter 5:8
(being sober is the opposite of being drunk, as the verse says, we keep sober or else we'll be taken by the devil)

if the wine contains alcohol, the alcohol will affect our body negatively, pure grape juice is the best.

God did not create alcoholic beverages, man did by fermenting the juice. regarding cannabis etc, I believe God made them for a purpose other than using it to cloud our minds, man corrupted them.

Hello Lakanduls.. you mind if I call you Lakanduls?

The problem with words is they are not precise tools to express thought, they have many meanings. It is very difficult to be accurate. for example, 'drunkards' usually means alcoholics, chronic drinkers. People who cease to be productive because of excessive drinking. Some people would call getting drunk every friday to be excessive, some people would call those people drunkards and they would be correct. Some people however would say once a week is ok, but everyday is bad, if you drink everyday, your a drunkard. That is also correct. Some people would say, i drink everyday, but I dont get drunk, I wake up next morning go to work, do my job, take care of my family, a shot or 2 of whiskey or wine a day is ok, Im not alcoholic. He would also be correct. Humans have different body chemistry, body mass etc... effects of alcohol are different.

Sober (http://www.dictionary.net/sober), yes you are correct, means to not be under the influence of alcohol. But it also means;

Not mad or insane; not wild, visionary, or heated with passion; exercising cool, dispassionate reason; self-controlled; self-possessed.

so that verse could be talking about fanaticism.

Would you not prefer clearer instructions especially when your immortal soul is at stake? something like, do not allow your BAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_conten t) to exceed .1% or if you drink, dont drive, because you might kill someone. and that is uncool. is there anything definitive like that in the bible?

Man just put the grape juice in Barrels. nature did the rest. Who made nature? who commands it? I seem to remember a certain fellow who stopped a raging storm... and walked on water.

lakandula

12-11-2007, 11:13 PM

Hello Lakanduls.. you mind if I call you Lakanduls?
I do mind

so that verse could be talking about fanaticism.
if you want it that way, it could. but what does the verse say? from experience I know kapag nakainom malapit ang tao sa tukso. I knew someone na 1 bote ng beer pa lang ang naiinom babae na ang hinahanap.

Man just put the grape juice in Barrels.
man's purpose - to ferment the grape juice

NemoySpruce

12-12-2007, 09:07 AM

I do mind

if you want it that way, it could. but what does the verse say? from experience I know kapag nakainom malapit ang tao sa tukso. I knew someone na 1 bote ng beer pa lang ang naiinom babae na ang hinahanap.

man's purpose - to ferment the grape juice

well then, he should not be drinking. ako kasi kahit hindi pa nakaka inom, naghahanap na ng babae. so does that mean ok lang ako uminom? is it the drinking of alcohol or the behavior of 'wanting women' that is wrong?

if grapes did not ferment into alcohol then there would be no wine. If tobacco did not cause effects to the brain, man would not smoke it. If cannabis and other drugs did not make you high, we would have no drug addicts. Why would God intentionally make addictive substances that were bad for our health, and then forbid us to consume them? what would be the purpose?

I have another question. Would you have known alcohol was bad if you did not drink it ever in your life? Even if everybody told you drinking alcohol was bad, you would never understand it as well as if you actually drank it and got drunk. But the bible says do not get drunk. So if you were really someone who wanted to follow the bible to the letter, how could you know for yourself why alcohol is bad?

kakkoii_daw

12-12-2007, 10:15 AM

how could you know for yourself why alcohol is bad?

this is like asking.. 'how do you know teh invisible pink unicorn is invisible?'
answer: because the Book says so...

'How do you know She's invisible?' I ask, wanting to get to the bottom of this strange behavior.

'Because the Book says she's not visible,' they reply.

'Well, how do you know She's not orange, instead of pink,' I ask.

'Because the Book says She's pink,' they answer.

'Okay,' I continue, 'then how do you know She's even a unicorn?'

'Because, silly,' they smile, 'the Book says She's a unicorn.'

Exasperated I ask, 'Despite the fact that there's absolutely zero evidence of the supernatural, why do you believe a book that makes all these supernatural claims? Despite all the facts, why would you believe the book is true?'

'That's easy!' they shout in unison. 'Because the Book itself says it's true. It also says that anyone who doubts the Book is true is a big dunderhead and most certainly headed for an afterlife filled with eternal, endless, exquisite torment. Praise Her Name!'

'Well, of course the Book would say that,' I grimace. 'Don't you see what its doing? It's saying "Believe and you're good, don't believe and you're bad, and in deep trouble." It's a psychological either/or ploy.'

But it was too late. They'd already turned their backs on me having recognized me for the freethinker, skeptic, and reprobate I am. Still, they had one last thing to say.

'We'll pray for you,' they called over their shoulders. 'And remember, the Invisible Pink Unicorn loves you!'

And then they were gone.

lakandula

12-12-2007, 08:54 PM

well then, he should not be drinking. ako kasi kahit hindi pa nakaka inom, naghahanap na ng babae. so does that mean ok lang ako uminom? is it the drinking of alcohol or the behavior of 'wanting women' that is wrong?

I already explained this in other posts, alcohol impairs our reactions and weakens normal inhibitions - an open door for the devil. (1 Peter 5:8)

For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality (tagalog bible - "kalibugan"). -1 Thess 4:3

if grapes did not ferment into alcohol then there would be no wine. If tobacco did not cause effects to the brain, man would not smoke it. If cannabis and other drugs did not make you high, we would have no drug addicts. Why would God intentionally make addictive substances that were bad for our health, and then forbid us to consume them? what would be the purpose?

Gaya po ng nasabi ko, man perverted/corrupted this creations of God. Regarding purpose, further medical study will reveal in the future but in the mean time you can ask the Creator thru prayer.

I have another question. Would you have known alcohol was bad if you did not drink it ever in your life? Even if everybody told you drinking alcohol was bad, you would never understand it as well as if you actually drank it and got drunk. But the bible says do not get drunk. So if you were really someone who wanted to follow the bible to the letter, how could you know for yourself why alcohol is bad?

"So if you were really someone who wanted to follow the bible..."
Faith - if God says (bible) its bad then I KNOW its bad

alexb

12-12-2007, 11:56 PM

Would you not prefer clearer instructions especially when your immortal soul is at stake? something like, do not allow your BAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_conten t) to exceed .1% or if you drink, dont drive, because you might kill someone. and that is uncool. is there anything definitive like that in the bible?

Man just put the grape juice in Barrels. nature did the rest. Who made nature? who commands it? I seem to remember a certain fellow who stopped a raging storm... and walked on water.

correct me if I'm wrong...are you blaming God kasi "hindi clear" ang instruction? are you blaming God kasi the "nature" He created ferments the grape juice?

ito malinaw, clear instruction - "thou shall not kill"
alcohol can kill, drinking alcohol is like dying in installment basis. nakahihilong suicide :)

NemoySpruce

12-13-2007, 10:03 AM

correct me if I'm wrong...are you blaming God kasi "hindi clear" ang instruction? are you blaming God kasi the "nature" He created ferments the grape juice?

ito malinaw, clear instruction - "thou shall not kill"
alcohol can kill, drinking alcohol is like dying in installment basis. nakahihilong suicide :)

No sir. It would be useless to blame God. He is omnipotent and omniscient. He can do whatever he likes. Im just saying, maybe the Bible is not a set of instructions. Maybe its more of a guideline.

thou shalt not kill - kill means to terminate life. bacteria are living organisms. do you know how many bacteria you kill each time you wash your hands, or brush your teeth? have you ever killed a mosquito? do you know how hamburgers are made? have you eaten sushi?

or does that rule only apply to humans? why did it not say, thou shalt not kill humans. or thou shall not commit murder. if you treat it as instructions, then you should not kill anything.period. thou shalt not kill. not even microbes. but if we take it as a guideline, then we can say, its only humans we cant kill. animals are alright to slaughter.

here is an interesting article on Wiki (http://www.timog.com/forum/For%20over%201,800%2 0years,%20the%20regu lar%20use%20of%20win e%20in%20the%20celeb ration%20of%20the%20 Eucharist%20and%20in %20daily%20life%20wa s%20the%20universal% 20and%20undisputed%2 0practice%20in%20Chr istianity.%5B60%5D%2 0During%20the%2019th %20and%20early%2020t h%20century,%20as%20 a%20general%20sense% 20of%20prohibitionis m%20arose,%20many%20 Christians,%20partic ularly%20some%20Prot estants%20in%20the%2 0United%20States,%20 came%20to%20believe% 20that%20the%20Bible %20prohibited%20alco hol%20or%20that%20th e%20wisest%20choice% 20in%20modern%20circ umstances%20was%20fo r%20the%20Christian% 20to%20willingly%20a bstain%20from%20alco hol.)

For over 1,800 years, the regular use of wine in the celebration of the Eucharist and in daily life was the universal and undisputed practice in Christianity.During the 19th and early 20th century, as a general sense of prohibitionism arose, many Christians, particularly some Protestants in the United States, came to believe that the Bible prohibited alcohol or that the wisest choice in modern circumstances was for the Christian to willingly abstain from alcohol.

NemoySpruce

12-13-2007, 10:33 AM

I already explained this in other posts, alcohol impairs our reactions and weakens normal inhibitions - an open door for the devil. (1 Peter 5:8)

what version is that? King James Version (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1peter%205:8 ;&version=50;) is different;

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality (tagalog bible - "kalibugan"). -1 Thess 4:3

again. "sexual immorality" has a broad range of definitions. depending on culture, traditions.... how can this apply to all men?

Gaya po ng nasabi ko, man perverted/corrupted this creations of God. Regarding purpose, further medical study will reveal in the future but in the mean time you can ask the Creator thru prayer.

from Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_alc ohol):
Both the climate and land of Palestine, where most of the Bible takes place, were well-suited to growing grapes,[46] and the wine that the vineyards produced was a valued commodity in ancient times, both for local consumption and for its value in trade.[47][48] Vineyards were protected from robbers and animals by walls, hedges, and manned watchtowers.[49]Men during that time had a surplus of grapes, and since refrigeration was still not invented, it was natural to try to store the grape juice in clean containers to extend their shelf life. Its most likely that they discovered that fermented properly, grape juice turns into a beverage that they can drink and sell to sustain themselves. What is evil about that? These were people trying to survive, they just used what was given to them by God to survive.

"So if you were really someone who wanted to follow the bible..."
Faith - if God says (bible) its bad then I KNOW its bad

is it really that simple? the bible can be a bit cryptic wouldnt you say?

NemoySpruce

12-13-2007, 10:37 AM

Hehe. The Invisible Pink Unicorn (pbuh) ... :)

this is like asking.. 'how do you know teh invisible pink unicorn is invisible?'
answer: because the Book says so...

alexb

12-13-2007, 08:01 PM

I have another question. Would you have known alcohol was bad if you did not drink it ever in your life? Even if everybody told you drinking alcohol was bad, you would never understand it as well as if you actually drank it and got drunk. But the bible says do not get drunk. So if you were really someone who wanted to follow the bible to the letter, how could you know for yourself why alcohol is bad?

are you saying that to KNOW something we NEED to TRY it?

If we change the words "do not get drunk" with "do not kill" or "do not commit incest", do we need to kill or commit incest to know that its really bad? The logic fails.

alexb

12-13-2007, 08:09 PM

thou shalt not kill - kill means to terminate life. bacteria are living organisms. do you know how many bacteria you kill each time you wash your hands, or brush your teeth? have you ever killed a mosquito? do you know how hamburgers are made? have you eaten sushi?

or does that rule only apply to humans? why did it not say, thou shalt not kill humans. or thou shall not commit murder. if you treat it as instructions, then you should not kill anything.period. thou shalt not kill. not even microbes. but if we take it as a guideline, then we can say, its only humans we cant kill. animals are alright to slaughter.

If you have read the TEN COMMANDMENTS kung saan nakasulat ang "thou shall not kill" (am sure nabasa mo na) you will see that that Law if for man and not bacterias. Di ko alam kung nagpapa-cute ka o nahawa ka na sa mga Jedi. :D you're smarter than that I know.

alexb

12-13-2007, 08:15 PM

Hehe. The Invisible Pink Unicorn (pbuh) ... :)

pbuh...peace be upon him...so ikaw pala ay isang islam. assalam alaikum

lets talk about islam and prophet muhammad, ok? pero sa ibang thread na lang di dito

alexb

12-14-2007, 12:00 AM

again. "sexual immorality" has a broad range of definitions. depending on culture, traditions.... how can this apply to all men?

Men during that time had a surplus of grapes, and since refrigeration was still not invented, it was natural to try to store the grape juice in clean containers to extend their shelf life. Its most likely that they discovered that fermented properly, grape juice turns into a beverage that they can drink and sell to sustain themselves. What is evil about that? These were people trying to survive, they just used what was given to them by God to survive.

the orig word used in 1 Thess 4:3 "sexual immorality" is PORNEIA, diyan nanggaling ang salita na porno natin ngayon.

meaning:

illicit sexual intercourse
-adultery, fornication(sex with someone not your spouse), homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
-sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
-sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

Is the bible given for all men or for just a particular race or tribe? if for all men, then it applies.
----------------------

"What is evil about that? These were people trying to survive, they just used what was given to them by God to survive."

edi ang Dios pala ang dapat sisihin? tama ba?

kakkoii_daw

12-14-2007, 09:45 AM

pbuh...peace be upon him...

hello dude, it should be 'peace be unto Her'... coz she is a goddess..
this is Her pic...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Ipu.png

g33k

12-14-2007, 09:59 AM

ot:
huwaw:eek: invisible nga :brush: pati si Ipu.png transparent :D

infinite_trial

12-14-2007, 10:28 AM

OT din
fenk pa :hihi:

Hensoldt

12-14-2007, 12:12 PM

If you do things that feels good, as long as those things don't cause harm to other people or infringe on their rights, then by all means do it, you only live once. We don't need religion and the "moral crusaders" telling us what we should or should not be doing.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident,
That all men are created equal,
That they are endowed by their Creator
with certain inalienable Rights'
That among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." -The Declaration of Independence

shinshinobi

12-15-2007, 04:40 AM

Should christians drink alcohol and smoke tobacco?

Sure. Why not? The Bible did not prohibit smoking or drinking alcohol.

I say go for it. Get drunk, rock and roll baby!

Nothing can beat fast times at Ridgemont High, we only live once so we better have fun because life is so precious to waste on thinking. :D

alexb

12-15-2007, 08:31 PM

Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. --Matt 7:21

ambassador

12-15-2007, 08:57 PM

Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. --Matt 7:21

What is the WILL of the Father?

gabby

12-15-2007, 09:01 PM

shinshinobi

12-15-2007, 10:11 PM

Yeah! I absolutely agree!! Why not indeed! I love you Shinshinobi. You absolutely got it right mate!!

Cheers!!:) :)

"The Wisdom of Shinshinobi" soon at a National Bookstore near you :biglaugh:

gabby

12-15-2007, 10:15 PM

"The Wisdom of Shinshinobi" soon at a National Bookstore near you :biglaugh:
Naks! I'll watch out for it heh he he he . . . :p

alexb

12-15-2007, 11:32 PM

What is the WILL of the Father?

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day. --John 6:40

God's will:
1- everyone to look at Jesus
2- everyone to believe in Jesus
3- everyone to have eternal life

NemoySpruce

12-16-2007, 06:06 PM

are you saying that to KNOW something we NEED to TRY it?

If we change the words "do not get drunk" with "do not kill" or "do not commit incest", do we need to kill or commit incest to know that its really bad? The logic fails.

i think i said how could you know for yourself unless you try it. you can sort of understand it if others tell you its wrong, but you dont really know because you havent tried it. Killing is bad, i dont need to try it to know its bad, but people who have killed would know more about it than me. And i can imagine a lot of situations when I would be forced to kill (to protect people that i care about, to save lives, to save myself..etc) If ever those situations will present themselves I would like to know what i will be dealing with. So information from someone who has experienced killing would be very valuable. the idea of incest is repulsive to me and i cant imagine any situation that will force me to do it, except maybe to save the human race from dying out, but still difficult choice :) .., but there may be others who have tried it and had to deal with the repercussions, information from their experiences would help me understand why its wrong.

I think not knowing and not asking 'why is it wrong?' is very dangerous. Thinking like that can lead to fanaticism.

So basically, alcohol is bad because the bible says its bad, doesnt fly with me. Alcohol is bad because your judgement becomes impaired and it affects your health. But it also has benefits if taken moderately (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol.html).

People who drink in moderation are different from non-drinkers or heavy drinkers in ways that could influence health and disease. Part of a national 1985 health interview survey showed that moderate drinkers were more likely than non-drinkers or heavy drinkers to be at a healthy weight, to get 7-8 hours of sleep a night, and to exercise regularly.

so theres data that alcohol does have some benefit. thats data gathered from research. in 1985.... not a 2000 year old text. And if you read the linked article, you will see that there are a lot of disadvantages with heavy drinking, so if you decide to not drink at all, then good for you. but if you drink responsibly then thats ok too. the choice should be made by the lifestyle you want to have. not because your a christian and the bible says its bad.

NemoySpruce

12-16-2007, 06:26 PM

If you have read the TEN COMMANDMENTS kung saan nakasulat ang "thou shall not kill" (am sure nabasa mo na) you will see that that Law if for man and not bacterias. Di ko alam kung nagpapa-cute ka o nahawa ka na sa mga Jedi. :D you're smarter than that I know.

Actually i read it a long time ago and I had to look it up again online. I was surprised to see that some versions say, thou shalt not kill, and some versions say you shall not murder. killing and murder are similar but have slightly different meaning. murder (http://www.answers.com/topic/murder?cat=biz-fin) is closley tied in with human law. killing is terminating life. bacteria are life forms. im not trying to be cute. if you dont get it then you got blinders on. If the commandment is thou shall not kill, then that applies to all life. if you say thou shall not murder, then soldiers killing in war is ok. So terrorists that brought down the twin towers were murderers by US law, but not in Iraq or Iran or wherever they came from. Interesting thing is, US soldiers were murderers while Saddam was in power, but when they replaced the governement, they became soldiers doing their jobs. pretty screwed up eh?

ambassador

12-16-2007, 08:26 PM

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day. --John 6:40

God's will:
1- everyone to look at Jesus
2- everyone to believe in Jesus
3- everyone to have eternal life

How do we accomplish God's will by looking at Jesus,believing in Jesus and by having eternal life with Jesus?

Many people followed these 3 things you listed above but did they already accomplished God's will? What will happen to you if you accomplish God's will?

alexb

12-16-2007, 09:44 PM

Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. --Matt 7:21

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day. --John 6:40

By looking and believing in Jesus is accomplishing God's will. If God wants us to stay physically healthy, should we believe Him?

What will happen to you if you accomplish God's will?

"...will have eternal life"

alexb

12-16-2007, 10:06 PM

If the commandment is thou shall not kill, then that applies to all life.

ang ibig kong sabihin, sa 10 commandments ay puro sa tao, gaya ng 'thou shall not steal', alangan namang bacteria ang nanakawan ng tao. 'thou shall not commit adultery' siyempre asawa ng tao ang bawal sa adultery at di sa bacteria. (kung may asawa nga sila :D )

the choice should be made by the lifestyle you want to have. not because your a christian and the bible says its bad.

ang tanong kasi ng thread ay sa christian (sa christian ang bible ang ilaw nila)...anyway, man has a free will to decide for himself. if you're not a christian then this thread question does not apply to you. happy holidays :)

NemoySpruce

12-17-2007, 09:40 AM

ang ibig kong sabihin, sa 10 commandments ay puro sa tao, gaya ng 'thou shall not steal', alangan namang bacteria ang nanakawan ng tao. 'thou shall not commit adultery' siyempre asawa ng tao ang bawal sa adultery at di sa bacteria. (kung may asawa nga sila :D )

i see. is that stated in the bible? or is that an assumption on your part? :) I have not read the bible as extensively as you, is there a verse that says every commandment applies to man only? if it does then there is a loophole for 'stealing'. You see, some property do not belong to a particular 'human'. Corporate assets do not belong to an individual, but technically belong to a business entity. So, is it alright to steal these property? Natural resources like oil, timber, minerals also do not belong to anyone in particular, is it ok to steal these as well? Although government property technically means it belongs to the people, i suspect I will be shot down if I tried to take a military helicopter for a joy ride. It belongs to the government. the government is not a man. can I steal that too?

Heres a puzzle for you. Lets say i left some food out in a park. a homeless person sees it, and he knows it will spoil soon because it is under the sun. He is really hungry, if he eats the food is that stealing? will he go to hell because of it?

ang tanong kasi ng thread ay sa christian (sa christian ang bible ang ilaw nila)...anyway, man has a free will to decide for himself. if you're not a christian then this thread question does not apply to you. happy holidays :)

Should Christians drink alcohol and smoke tobacco?
Nararapat bang uminom ng nakalalasing na inumin at manigarilyo ang isang Cristiano?hmmm.... di ko yata nakita kung saan yung 'To Christians only...' sign. :) any reason why christians would shy away from a balanced objective discussion? any reason why christians would prefer biased opinions? what are you afraid of? I thought the bible is for everyone?

happy holidays din po.

aja

12-17-2007, 02:34 PM

Goodevening!, pardon me for butting in but I just want to comment on something
regarding the commandment "Thou shall not steal" if I may.

I beleive that it does apply to everyone whether you're a Christian or not. It is a co-
mmandment to us human beings not to steal from another human being, or from
an organization ( which is a group of people ), or from the government ( which
is an organization that we elected to govern us ) who has charge over our natu-
ral resources.

We cannot take something that doesn't belong to us because it is not right and it is
immoral, Christian or not. Although, like what NemoySpruce said regarding the
hungry homeless person, I'll probably take the food too and eat it but it's still con-
sidered as stealing, I'll still be breaking God's commandment.

My other alternative of course is to ask permission.

On Topic, I believe as a Christian that I should not drink exessively and not be en-
slaved by smoking tobacco. I think I should mention that I drink ocassionally and
I'm a smoker too. Yon lang po and thank you. Merry Christmas to all.

ambassador

12-17-2007, 08:14 PM

Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. --Matt 7:21

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day. --John 6:40

By looking and believing in Jesus is accomplishing God's will. If God wants us to stay physically healthy, should we believe Him?

"...will have eternal life"

What does eternal life mean?

alexb

12-18-2007, 10:49 PM

i see. is that stated in the bible? or is that an assumption on your part? :)

ang gusto mo ba ay word-for-word? di ba malinaw ang nakasulat sa 10 utos na para sa tao?

I have not read the bible as extensively as you, is there a verse that says every commandment applies to man only?

tao lang ang binigyan ng Dios ng 10 utos

if it does then there is a loophole for 'stealing'. You see, some property do not belong to a particular 'human'. Corporate assets do not belong to an individual, but technically belong to a business entity. So, is it alright to steal these property? Natural resources like oil, timber, minerals also do not belong to anyone in particular, is it ok to steal these as well? Although government property technically means it belongs to the people, i suspect I will be shot down if I tried to take a military helicopter for a joy ride. It belongs to the government. the government is not a man. can I steal that too?

ang pagnanakaw ay ang pagkuha ng hindi sayo. kahit pa pag-aari iyan ng isang corporate (na binubuo ng mga tao pa rin) pero hindi sayo, pagnanakaw yun

hmmm.... di ko yata nakita kung saan yung 'To Christians only...' sign. :) any reason why christians would shy away from a balanced objective discussion? any reason why christians would prefer biased opinions? what are you afraid of? I thought the bible is for everyone?

ang sabi kasi "should christians...." di na kelangan ng sign yan di ba, malinaw naman ah. what I meant is baka may nagpost at nagagalit na pinakekelaman ang lifestyle niya pero di naman pala siya christian. ang tinatanong lang ay yung mga christian.

happy holidays din po.

happy holidays sa lahat :)

alexb

12-18-2007, 10:54 PM

What does eternal life mean?

hindi namamatay

NemoySpruce

12-19-2007, 09:24 AM

ang gusto mo ba ay word-for-word? di ba malinaw ang nakasulat sa 10 utos na para sa tao?

not if you read it objectively. if you read it with a biased eye, then siguro malinaw :D.

tao lang ang binigyan ng Dios ng 10 utos

thats not what we are discussing. ang sinasabi mo ay, it was given to men, men are the direct object (doer of the action), but the indirect object (receiver of the action) is not stated, and thats what we are discussing. your assuming the indirect object is also only humans. di kasali mga kawawang bacteria? the bible does not classify bacteria as life?

ang pagnanakaw ay ang pagkuha ng hindi sayo. kahit pa pag-aari iyan ng isang corporate (na binubuo ng mga tao pa rin) pero hindi sayo, pagnanakaw yun

we are made up of individual cells, but would you say you are the same as a cell? same thing with corporations and governments. they are made up of people and other assets but they are not humans. if stealing from these entities is wrong, then killing bacteria should also be wrong.

ang sabi kasi "should christians...." di na kelangan ng sign yan di ba, malinaw naman ah. what I meant is baka may nagpost at nagagalit na pinakekelaman ang lifestyle niya pero di naman pala siya christian. ang tinatanong lang ay yung mga christian.

actually hindi po malinaw :D malinaw siguro kung sa simula ay sinabi ng thread starter.."this thread is only directed to christians, if your not christian please dont reply" ayun malinaw. Kasi pwede ako gumawa ng thread, should muslims be angry at the danish for drawing cartoons of Muhammed? .. does not mean only muslims can participate in the discussion.

Im not participating in this discussion dahil feeling ko apektado lifestyle ko, hindi po ako ganon ka babaw :D. I just know a lot of good Christians who also drink, and I dont agree with using the bible and guilt to control behavior. The Bible is a good source of knowledge and guidance and enlightenment. It should never be used as a tool.

gabby

12-19-2007, 09:42 AM

@ nemuyspruce

Hi!:) I have been reading the discussions here and of course your posters really stand out. I really enjoy reading it.

It seems to me that you are philosophycally agnostic? Or maybe that is an understatement. Whatever you say is of course credible.

Your arguments are really sensible and I do agree with you. But isn't it ridiculous mixing religion with science and vice versa? I mean it's just like oil and water they never meet.
What do you think?:)

NemoySpruce

12-19-2007, 10:12 AM

ambassador

12-19-2007, 10:22 PM

hindi namamatay

Ano ang hindi namamatay?

gabby

12-20-2007, 10:15 AM

yep. you got me :) Im agnostic. I was brought up catholic and I used to be very religious. Church, Bible study... etc.. but now im in a 'I dont know' phase, (probably from all the books ive read). So if you need to have a name for the nature of what I believe in, then its agnosticism. Im not agnostic because im lazy :) its just a state i am in right now.

I understand what your saying, oil and water never meet :), but the best dishes(foods) are cooked with a mixture of both. They are different (in subtle ways that most people take for granted) and we should be able to determine if something is science or if its religion. But we cannot be entirely religious and forget science, or be entirely scientific and drop religion. Where science ends, we use religion. And where science already exists, religion cannot.

Heh he he you scared me Nemuyspruce. I thought in an instant I am like you but when I took my moment and probe my belief I found out I am not an agnostic. Not yet anyway.

But yeah! I understand you. It is happening to me as well. It is really difficult what to believe in anymore. I am asking myself if I have to continue clinging to my faith or abandon it for trendy new ones.

Living amidst of the cutting edge technology, so much materialism and so much hypocricy among the religious elders (regardless of religious denomination) the fundamentalists who are very judgmental and doom sayers like most of the posters here. It is really difficult to keep yout faith and much more difficult to discard it. So what happened, I become a cynic and sceptical. I hate religious preachers. You know?? For me they are bunch of idiots who think we are ignorant about God.

I agree with your analogy. But religion stiil more credible than science. Science with its tremendous success and achievements still does not answer or at least satisfactorily answer the mystery of the existence of things. Ironically science is dreadfully predicting the extinction of all of us if we wont be careful now in taking care of Earth. And I believe the bible has talked about the apocalyps specifically Jesus Christ.

g33k

12-20-2007, 11:26 AM

I agree with your analogy. But religion stiil more credible than science. Science with its tremendous success and achievements still does not answer or at least satisfactorily answer the mystery of the existence of things. Ironically science is dreadfully predicting the extinction of all of us if we wont be careful now in taking care of Earth. And I believe the bible has talked about the apocalyps specifically Jesus Christ.

hullo gabby!

just a thought, science are trying to do its limits just to show facts. religion on the other hand claims of holding the answers for all questions (am i right?). or as what you've posted, it is more credible than science. people of modern ages are not just contented to what was written on the book: some sort of stories, "acclaimed" facts/answers, etc. they want to see it in real action rather than believing to what they've read/heard. thus, the credibility of religion is becoming more questionable (or i'm just the one questioning it :D peace!)

on topic:
for me, drinking alcohol or smoking is ok. do it at your own risk that is :D

gabby

12-20-2007, 11:56 AM

hullo gabby!

just a thought, science are trying to do its limits just to show facts. religion on the other hand claims of holding the answers for all questions (am i right?). or as what you've posted, it is more credible than science. people of modern ages are not just contented to what was written on the book: some sort of stories, "acclaimed" facts/answers, etc. they want to see it in real action rather than believing to what they've read/heard. thus, the credibility of religion is becoming more questionable (or i'm just the one questioning it :D peace!)

on topic:
for me, drinking alcohol or smoking is ok. do it at your own risk that is :D

Geek Mate how are you? Aren't you supposed to be home for Christmas?

Depends on whose view you see things. If you are leaning on towards religion you'll perceive it the way they think it is. But if you are a science man of course you want to see things in action, in physical manifestations. That is why science and religion can't really mix together, it's impossible.

Science take lots of times and awefully lots of effort to probe one particular matter.
But faith doesn't. Just get hungry and try to meditate about the existence of God and your mind plays trick on you and before five o'clock in the afternoon you'll come out a believer.

Heh he he. . . my point is if one believes whole heartedly in his God, particularly the Christian God, it is much, much, much, much easier to perceive and grasp that the world and all the living and non-living things in it are the creation of God. The non-believer does not see this. A science man takes about a hundred years to prove that a matter consists a tiny particle of atoms and so on . . . Darwininian theory is less than satisfactory, no one probably accepted the theory except in the science community. But generally it hasn't been accepted.

Meanwhile religion before governments, science and democracy have been the integral part of societies in the old world and, even now, religion still holds and strings societies together.

So, do you think science can carry one civilisation to another? Do you think it was science that transformed Philippine civilisation into what it is now? In the minds of most Filipinos what we have become is the will of God. Meaning, they give more credit to their CATHOLIC BELIEF than what scientists in the west have been trying to discover scientifically. Science is always late. That is why science is less credible.

gabby

12-20-2007, 12:01 PM

Opssssssssss! Sowee double posting ako ah!!!

NemoySpruce

12-20-2007, 01:30 PM

Tabi tabi po thread starter, medyo OT kami pero babalik din, promise po. :)

What happend? hmmm. first thing that happend is I realized why the catholic church was such a success. It started out as a group of people who truly believed in what one man did to change how men(and women) viewed and treated each other. I believe in the early days, the catholic church was truly noble. The belief was very popular with people back then, and it caused some trouble with the Roman empire. Constantine the great (genius at strategems) saw that the best way to handle the situation is not to fight against it, but to adopt it. Hence began the politicization of the Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church is a political body, any religious organization is inherently political. They need to be, in order to succeed. Therefore any organized religious movement treats the member as second priority over its own existence. Ideally, if all members put other members above themselves, ideally it would work. but it only takes one member to take advantage (usually the 'leader') for everything to fall apart. This thought did not cause me to abhor the Catholic Church because I understand that politics are necessary, it just changed how I view it. I used to see the church and its concept of God as the owner of my life. I gave my life to God, but in actuality I gave my life to the organization known as the Catholic Church. The priests owned me. What they say during mass in their homily, I have to follow. The realization that the Church is flawed, led me to the thought that their concept of God could also be flawed. And the thought that I have given myself to a flawed concept bothered me. Better try to make my own flawed concept than believe someone else's. Since I grew up catholic, i never stray too far away from the teachings of the bible, but i make my own interpretations using the most reliable system i have seen so far..science.

Therefore, when someone asks me "Should Christians smoke tobacco and drink alcohol.." I answer using scientific information. Its not a perfect answer, but to me its the most sensible.

Heh he he you scared me Nemuyspruce. I thought in an instant I am like you but when I took my moment and probe my belief I found out I am not an agnostic. Not yet anyway.

But yeah! I understand you. It is happening to me as well. It is really difficult what to believe in anymore. I am asking myself if I have to continue clinging to my faith or abandon it for trendy new ones.

Living amidst of the cutting edge technology, so much materialism and so much hypocricy among the religious elders (regardless of religious denomination) the fundamentalists who are very judgmental and doom sayers like most of the posters here. It is really difficult to keep yout faith and much more difficult to discard it. So what happened, I become a cynic and sceptical. I hate religious preachers. You know?? For me they are bunch of idiots who think we are ignorant about God.

I agree with your analogy. But religion stiil more credible than science. Science with its tremendous success and achievements still does not answer or at least satisfactorily answer the mystery of the existence of things. Ironically science is dreadfully predicting the extinction of all of us if we wont be careful now in taking care of Earth. And I believe the bible has talked about the apocalyps specifically Jesus Christ.

NemoySpruce

12-20-2007, 01:52 PM

Meanwhile religion before governments, science and democracy have been the integral part of societies in the old world and, even now, religion still holds and strings societies together.

So, do you think science can carry one civilisation to another? Do you think it was science that transformed Philippine civilisation into what it is now? In the minds of most Filipinos what we have become is the will of God. Meaning, they give more credit to their CATHOLIC BELIEF than what scientists in the west have been trying to discover scientifically. Science is always late. That is why science is less credible.
How do you think the catholic priests got to the Philippines to preach the gospel? Did they swim? they rode on boats, and the captains used the compass and the soldiers were superior to the natives because they had better armor and rifles. Without technology catholicism would have never reached our Islands. Maybe we'd all be muslims now. But you are correct. Religion is a major part of why our country is the way it is now. I still dont see why you think religion is more credible than science. do you mean easier to believe? then I agree, if you dont have time or desire to read and learn, then religion is easier to understand. one answer fits all..'God made it that way, and we cannot know the will of God'. Religion is easier to believe, but I would trust science more, because science tries always to be objective. not always successful, but at least it tries :)

g33k

12-20-2007, 02:30 PM

hullo mate! i'm doing great. how about you? oh btw, i'll be spending my holiday here.

but isn't it ridiculous mixing religion with science and vice versa? I mean it's just like oil and water they never meet.

That is why science and religion can't really mix together, it's impossible.

you told that we can't mix religion with science, then why are we using them as an entity for comparison :D

anyway to keep the ball rolling, let's discuss :D

So, do you think science can carry one civilisation to another? Do you think it was science that transformed Philippine civilisation into what it is now? In the minds of most Filipinos what we have become is the will of God. Meaning, they give more credit to their CATHOLIC BELIEF than what scientists in the west have been trying to discover scientifically. Science is always late. That is why science is less credible.

science was part of civilization. it was not late, it was recognized late. civilization was not carried by religion alone, science advances it to where it is now. people are just wise enough to think and mold science to let this civilazation happen. in fact, products of science was being used by religion. :D

sa threadstarter pasensya na po :D

gabby

12-20-2007, 03:28 PM

How do you think the catholic priests got to the Philippines to preach the gospel? Did they swim? they rode on boats, and the captains used the compass and the soldiers were superior to the natives because they had better armor and rifles. Without technology catholicism would have never reached our Islands. Maybe we'd all be muslims now. But you are correct. Religion is a major part of why our country is the way it is now. I still dont see why you think religion is more credible than science. do you mean easier to believe? then I agree, if you dont have time or desire to read and learn, then religion is easier to understand. one answer fits all..'God made it that way, and we cannot know the will of God'. Religion is easier to believe, but I would trust science more, because science tries always to be objective. not always successful, but at least it tries :)

Heh he he . . . :D is that your idea of science and religion cocktail?

Islam is one of the THREE GREAT religions in the world.

Well... it is more credible for me because a great multitude of people in the world believe in it Heh he he he . . . :D My point is religion has already planted its influence in the human beings' matrix. It has been there since the biginning. Science could not untangle it. Science can only argue and rebuff what has been anciently believed by religious people but it can not absolutey change them.

The contribution of science to the humans is undeniable. It helps man with their progress intellectually. That is why science fanatics they believe there is no God because they create things and discover things.

Meanwhile, the Bible is believable. Moses was great in building pyramids but he abandoned it for God. How do you explain the seven plagues of Egypt. Turning the whole bunch of water into blood? How can you dispute the order of God for Noah to take male and female of every species to the boat because he is going to flood the world? Etc. :D :D

infinite_trial

12-20-2007, 03:34 PM

tama na yan, inuman na lang tayo!

NemoySpruce

12-20-2007, 03:41 PM

So what your saying is... you believe in the bible because a lot of people believe in it? cool :D if it works for you then, i got no problem with that. okey. balik na po sa topic... oh and 'science fanatic' is an oxymoron :D

Well... it is more credible for me because a great multitude of people in the world believe in it Heh he he he . . . :D My point is religion has already planted its influence in the human beings' matrix. It has been there since the biginning. Science could not untangle it. Science can only argue and rebuff what has been anciently believed by religious people but it can not absolutey change them.

The contribution of science to the humans is undeniable. It helps man with their progress intellectually. That is why science fanatics they believe there is no God because they create things and discover things.

gabby

12-20-2007, 03:55 PM

hullo mate! i'm doing great. how about you? oh btw, i'll be spending my holiday here.

you told that we can't mix religion with science, then why are we using them as an entity for comparison :D

anyway to keep the ball rolling, let's discuss :D

science was part of civilization. it was not late, it was recognized late. civilization was not carried by religion alone, science advances it to where it is now. people are just wise enough to think and mold science to let this civilazation happen. in fact, products of science was being used by religion. :D

sa threadstarter pasensya na po :D

Sorry I didn't make my apology to the threadowner. I am really sorry for taking your thread away.

Hi Geek I am glad you get the time to chat.

What do you mean 'WE' it's only you who are using them as entity for comparison. Doctors never temp themselves to treat their patients with both scietific medicine and quack doctor treatments. They are even sceptical with herbal and acupuncture treatments.

LOL:D :D What is the difference between flatly late and recognised late???:eek: It is still late you know? :) :)

What I mean is; In the olden times the world was really ruled by religious belief. It murdered so many people around the globe. Now, who was that great greek philsopher who said that the world was round? He was persecuted because he crossed the religious people's official assumption that the world was square. It was too plate for Plato (Sorry I am not really sure if it was plato) to prove that the world was indeed round. Now my point is religion is always one step ahead of science regardless of their assumption if it is right or wrong. Of course it is true that science is used by religion. The Da Vinci Code film emphasised it,aint it?:D

gabby

12-20-2007, 03:57 PM

docomo

12-20-2007, 04:08 PM

magpapasko na.. manahimik naman muna kayo :fire:

gabby

12-20-2007, 04:15 PM

magpapasko na.. manahimik naman muna kayo :fire:

Allo Doc merry Christmas:D :D

g33k

12-20-2007, 04:22 PM

Sorry I didn't make my apology to the threadowner. I am really sorry for taking your thread away.

Hi Geek I am glad you get the time to chat.

What do you mean 'WE' it's only you who are using them as entity for comparison. Doctors never temp themselves to treat their patients with both scietific medicine and quack doctor treatments. They are even sceptical with herbal and acupuncture treatments.

LOL:D :D What is the difference between flatly late and recognised late???:eek: It is still late you know? :) :)

What I mean is; In the olden times the world was really ruled by religious belief. It murdered so many people around the globe. Now, who was that great greek philsopher who said that the world was round? He was persecuted because he crossed the religious people's official assumption that the world was square. It was too plate for Plato (Sorry I am not really sure if it was plato) to prove that the world was indeed round. Now my point is religion is always one step ahead of science regardless of their assumption if it is right or wrong. Of course it is true that science is used by religion. The Da Vinci Code film emphasised it,aint it?:D

hahaha. :D:

you did some comparisons here:

Science take lots of times and awefully lots of effort to probe one particular matter. But faith doesn't.

Heh he he. . . my point is if one believes whole heartedly in his God, particularly the Christian God, it is much, much, much, much easier to perceive and grasp that the world and all the living and non-living things in it are the creation of God. The non-believer does not see this. A science man takes about a hundred years to prove that a matter consists a tiny particle of atoms and so on . . . Darwininian theory is less than satisfactory, no one probably accepted the theory except in the science community. But generally it hasn't been accepted.

Meanwhile religion before governments, science and democracy have been the integral part of societies in the old world and, even now, religion still holds and strings societies together.

:D

LOL:D :D What is the difference between flatly late and recognised late???:eek: It is still late you know? :) :)

when we say late, it was not there right when the action took place; on the other hand, when we say "recognized late", it was part of the action, existed right there and then, but was given attention far behind the other. :D

ohhh btw, that fictitious robert langdon was one hell of a great symbologist :D

ok back to the topic ;)

g33k

12-20-2007, 04:26 PM

magpapasko na.. manahimik naman muna kayo :fire:

peace mod doc!

oist gabby at nemoy, OT na kayo ha! peace! :hihi:

o sya balik na tayo sa topic. i'm outta here! :D

NemoySpruce

12-20-2007, 04:29 PM

magpapasko na.. manahimik naman muna kayo :fire:

nothing like a good flame to warm our hearts for christmas.. Merry Christmas to all!

gabby

12-20-2007, 04:31 PM

peace mod doc!

oist gabby at nemoy, OT na kayo ha! peace! :hihi:

o sya balik na tayo sa topic. i'm outta here! :D

Uyyyy! Huwag muna ano ba heh eh he :D

To the owner so sorry again for hijacking your thread.

shinshinobi

12-20-2007, 05:04 PM

wag nyo muna itigil, sarap magbasa habang may popcorn at softdrink, :D

very entertaining. thumbs up!

alexb

12-20-2007, 09:49 PM

thats not what we are discussing. ang sinasabi mo ay, it was given to men, men are the direct object (doer of the action), but the indirect object (receiver of the action) is not stated, and thats what we are discussing. your assuming the indirect object is also only humans. di kasali mga kawawang bacteria? the bible does not classify bacteria as life?

we are made up of individual cells, but would you say you are the same as a cell? same thing with corporations and governments. they are made up of people and other assets but they are not humans. if stealing from these entities is wrong, then killing bacteria should also be wrong.

sample lang:

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (utos yan sa tao, di sa bacteria, malinaw na tao ang binigyan ng utos)
"Honour thy father and thy mother..." (sa tao uli obviously, tao sa tao)
"Thou shalt not commit adultery." (tao ang may asawa at di bacteria, tao sa tao)
"Thou shalt not steal." (magnanakaw na bacteria??)
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." (tao ang nakakapagsinungaling sa korte)
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife..." (tao ang merong bahay at asawa, tao sa tao)

Kung lahat ng yan ay para sa tao ang "Thou shalt not kill" kaya ay para sa pagpatay sa bacteria o sa kapwa tao? :D I hope malinaw na

actually hindi po malinaw :D malinaw siguro kung sa simula ay sinabi ng thread starter.."this thread is only directed to christians, if your not christian please dont reply" ayun malinaw. Kasi pwede ako gumawa ng thread, should muslims be angry at the danish for drawing cartoons of Muhammed? .. does not mean only muslims can participate in the discussion.

di ko naman sinabing "dont reply", kako ang tanong hindi applicable kung hindi christian

Im not participating in this discussion dahil feeling ko apektado lifestyle ko, hindi po ako ganon ka babaw :D. I just know a lot of good Christians who also drink, and I dont agree with using the bible and guilt to control behavior. The Bible is a good source of knowledge and guidance and enlightenment. It should never be used as a tool.

well, the bible is the word of God at hindi natin at kung meron man nasasaktan ay di na natin problema yan, madalas nga akong tamaan kapag nag-aaral ako ng bible kaya alam ko kung gaano na ako kalayo sa Dios dahil sa bible...that is why I need a saviour - Jesus Christ.

lakandula

12-20-2007, 10:18 PM

Uyyyy! Huwag muna ano ba heh eh he :D

To the owner so sorry again for hijacking your thread.

ok lang basta hindi usapang lasing hehehe

sori po sa title kung malabo :D

aja

12-21-2007, 01:12 AM

Wow, science versus religion....Who's got the answer to solving the world's problems?

I agree with mod Docomo, we should all take a break. We should all go and visit through our minds and through our hearths the birthplace of the One whom God sent to bring us the good news, the word of the Lord, words of peace and love. We should all take a momenrt to reflect on the Babe in the manger, whose from His coception up to His death lived a life full of struggles and hardships. OT na so , Merry Christmas na lang sa lahat and a blessed New Year.

shinshinobi

12-21-2007, 07:35 AM

NemoySpruce

12-21-2007, 09:10 AM

sample lang:

...
"Thou shalt not steal." (magnanakaw na bacteria??)
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." (tao ang nakakapagsinungaling sa korte)
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife..." (tao ang merong bahay at asawa, tao sa tao)

ok po. so ang assumption mo is sa tao lang. tao sa tao. so if i steal from the government its ok? or are you saying the government is a human? ive already explained even if it is made partly of humans, the government is not a human. it is a thing. still dont believe me? what pronoun do you use when you refer to the government?

thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house? ang bahay ba ay human? in this sentence, 'neighbor' defines house. the indirect object is 'house'. so ang utos ng diyos dito ay tao (ikaw) sa bahay(ng kapitbahay mo)

you read the commandments and feeling mo malinaw sayo, kasi you are looking through the eyes of your preachers/teachers. biased... free your mind. there is no spoon :D ..

NemoySpruce

12-21-2007, 09:12 AM

Dude, wala nang makikipag debate sayo. kaw na lang mag debate magisa :D senseless mga reply mo eh.

I'm sure this will lead to another debate, "Is December 25 really the birth of Jesus Christ?"..

waiting for our debaters.....:D

gabby

12-21-2007, 09:25 AM

Dude, wala nang makikipag debate sayo. kaw na lang mag debate magisa :D senseless mga reply mo eh.

HA HA HA HA HA ! Nya ha ha ha ha :D Aliw ako!!:p :p :p

bluesapphire

12-21-2007, 01:52 PM

korek po kayo jan docomo san;) mahirap yata ang maging sobrang talino,wala yatang pinakikinggan:D magpapasko na.. manahimik naman muna kayo :fire:

ambassador

12-21-2007, 09:37 PM

Sana ni masagot ni AlexB yong tanong ko sa kanya.

Ano po ang hindi namamatay kung magkaroon tayo ng eternal life?

alexb

12-21-2007, 11:21 PM

Ano po ang hindi namamatay kung magkaroon tayo ng eternal life?

sinagot mo na tanong mo eh...alam kong pinaiikot mo lang, this is my last reply to you. merry christmas!

alexb

12-21-2007, 11:24 PM

ok po. so ang assumption mo is sa tao lang. tao sa tao. so if i steal from the government its ok? or are you saying the government is a human? ive already explained even if it is made partly of humans, the government is not a human. it is a thing. still dont believe me? what pronoun do you use when you refer to the government?

are you and I a part of a govt? If I steal from the govt ninakawan ba rin kita? need response

(Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth. -Abe Lincoln)

thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house? ang bahay ba ay human? in this sentence, 'neighbor' defines house. the indirect object is 'house'. so ang utos ng diyos dito ay tao (ikaw) sa bahay(ng kapitbahay mo)

tao ba ang may-ari ng bahay? sino ang maaapektuhan kung aagawin ang bahay ng may bahay? need response

you read the commandments and feeling mo malinaw sayo, kasi you are looking through the eyes of your preachers/teachers. biased... free your mind. there is no spoon :D

its already free, I do self-study. can you prove your allegations? need response
..

ok, edi bawal pumatay ng bacteria...sabi mo eh...tapos :D

alexb

12-21-2007, 11:25 PM

Dude, wala nang makikipag debate sayo. kaw na lang mag debate magisa :D senseless mga reply mo eh.

hahaha, nadali mo :D

lakandula

12-23-2007, 03:19 PM

ambassador

12-23-2007, 06:26 PM

sinagot mo na tanong mo eh...alam kong pinaiikot mo lang, this is my last reply to you. merry christmas!

Anong pinaiikot? Hindi pa rin malinaw yong sagot mo.

Sabi mo:
God's will is:
1- everyone to look at Jesus ---OK
2- everyone to believe in Jesus----OK
3- everyone to have eternal life ----?

Tanong ko : What does "eternal life" mean?
Sagot mo: Hindi namamatay
Tanong ko : Ano ang "hindi namamatay?"
Sagot mo : "sinagot mo na tanong mo eh...alam kong pinaiikot mo lang"

Alin ang pinaiikot? If you want to preach you should be patient in giving answers to someone who is asking. Otherwise walang maniniwala sayo.

Ulitin ko tanong ko:
Ano ang hindi namamatay? ( katawan ba o ispiritu?)

Happy New Year!

ambassador

12-23-2007, 06:32 PM

Appetite

Ang ginamit ng diablo nung tuksuhin niya si Eba ay ang appetite (Gen 3:1-6) at siya ay nagtagumpay. Hanggang ngayon ay appetite pa rin ang kanyang ginagamit sa pagtukso sa atin at marami siyang napagtagumpayan.

Hindi ba tayo nakapagtanong na ng "Bakit kung ano pa ang masarap yun pa ang bawal?" Yung masarap kainin, inumin etc ay yun pa minsan ang nakakasama sa kalusugan.

Ibig mo sabihin masama ang appetite? Ano nalang kaya ang mangyayari kung walang apetite ang tao?:D
Sinu ba ang lumikha ng apetite ang Diyos o ang dyablo?
Sya nga pala, paborito ko yong apple kainin. Araw araw malakas ang apetite kong kumain ng apple. Masama po ba yon? Ilang apple ba ang kinain ni Eba na syang dahilan kaya naging masama yong apetite nya?

shinshinobi

12-23-2007, 07:29 PM

related ba yang appetite na yan sa Appetite for Destruction ng GNR?

alexb

12-23-2007, 08:28 PM

Alin ang pinaiikot? If you want to preach you should be patient in giving answers to someone who is asking. Otherwise walang maniniwala sayo.

Ulitin ko tanong ko:
Ano ang hindi namamatay? ( katawan ba o ispiritu?)

Happy New Year!

If I want to preach....eh paano yan I dont preach and am not preaching.

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day. --John 6:40

malinaw naman ah, walang sinabi na katawan lang o espiritu lang. hapi new year din!

lakandula

12-23-2007, 09:54 PM

Ibig mo sabihin masama ang appetite? Ano nalang kaya ang mangyayari kung walang apetite ang tao?:D
Sinu ba ang lumikha ng apetite ang Diyos o ang dyablo?
Sya nga pala, paborito ko yong apple kainin. Araw araw malakas ang apetite kong kumain ng apple. Masama po ba yon? Ilang apple ba ang kinain ni Eba na syang dahilan kaya naging masama yong apetite nya?

no, ibig kong sabihin mag-ingat tayo, maging temperate dahil ginagamit ang appetite ng kaaway. kelangan na makontrol natin ang appetite.

also, hindi po sinabi na apple yung kinain ni Eba. ang kasalanan dun ay ang pagsuway sa utos ng Dios na huwag kakain ng bunga ng punong iyon.

lakandula

12-24-2007, 07:55 PM

Maligayang Pasko sa lahat! Ingat lang po sa kain at inom :) sabi ng mga taga punerarya peak season daw nila ang holiday season na ito. (magpa-pasko yata nung namatay si FPJ dahil sa stroke tama ba?)

******************

Jesus - the reason for the season

ambassador

12-24-2007, 08:40 PM

If I want to preach....eh paano yan I dont preach and am not preaching.

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day. --John 6:40

malinaw naman ah, walang sinabi na katawan lang o espiritu lang. hapi new year din!

Dahil kabisado mo ang mga bible verses , naniniwala ako na isa po kayong Christian and that you believed in Jesus.

Since you beholds in Jesus and believed in Jesus, that means you have attained eternal life. Yes or No? and thus fullfilled the will of God. Yes or no?

Since you have attained eternal life, ibig sabihin sa tagalog ikaw ay hindi namamatay. :rolleyes:

Ngayon kung hindi katawan o espiritu (sabi mo "lang") ang hindi namamatay, eh ano???:confused:

Or ibig mo bang sabihin na ang katawan at espiritu ay hindi mamamatay?

You are qouting bible verses hindi ba yan preaching? ok maybe in other term "sharing" but the point is dapat kompleto at malinaw ang sagot mo hindi yong bitin. :D

alexb

12-29-2007, 10:05 AM

Dahil kabisado mo ang mga bible verses , naniniwala ako na isa po kayong Christian and that you believed in Jesus.

Since you beholds in Jesus and believed in Jesus, that means you have attained eternal life. Yes or No? and thus fullfilled the will of God. Yes or no?

Since you have attained eternal life, ibig sabihin sa tagalog ikaw ay hindi namamatay. :rolleyes:

Ngayon kung hindi katawan o espiritu (sabi mo "lang") ang hindi namamatay, eh ano???:confused:

Or ibig mo bang sabihin na ang katawan at espiritu ay hindi mamamatay?

You are qouting bible verses hindi ba yan preaching? ok maybe in other term "sharing" but the point is dapat kompleto at malinaw ang sagot mo hindi yong bitin. :D

May I ask, are you a Christian?

Ang mga tanong ninyo ay pa-unti-unti gaya ng "What does eternal life mean?" kahit sa word meaning lang ay malinaw ang meaning - never ending life, hindi namamatay.

Kung may gusto kayong sabihin o ituro sabihin nyo na lang ng mapag-usapan kasi alam ko naman na may pupuntahan yang tanong na paunti-unti.

Basahin natin ulit...

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day. --John 6:40

Hindi ko alam kung saan ninyo nakuha ang idea sa tanong ninyo na katawan o espiritu lang. Malinaw na ang binanggit ay "him" at hindi "his body only" o "his spirit only". It was your idea not mine. If that is what you are pointing out paki-linaw ang point ninyo.

Happy New Year!:)

ambassador

12-29-2007, 05:20 PM

May I ask, are you a Christian?

Ang mga tanong ninyo ay pa-unti-unti gaya ng "What does eternal life mean?" kahit sa word meaning lang ay malinaw ang meaning - never ending life, hindi namamatay.

Kung may gusto kayong sabihin o ituro sabihin nyo na lang ng mapag-usapan kasi alam ko naman na may pupuntahan yang tanong na paunti-unti.

Basahin natin ulit...

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day. --John 6:40

Hindi ko alam kung saan ninyo nakuha ang idea sa tanong ninyo na katawan o espiritu lang. Malinaw na ang binanggit ay "him" at hindi "his body only" o "his spirit only". It was your idea not mine. If that is what you are pointing out paki-linaw ang point ninyo.

Happy New Year!:)

Ang interpretation mo ang mali.

Malinaw sa verse mo na "if you believe in Him(Jesus), you will not die (will have eternal life).

Many people believed in Him but died. Example, the saints, the martyrs, even Mother Theresa.

alexb

12-30-2007, 03:13 PM

Ang interpretation mo ang mali.

Malinaw sa verse mo na "if you believe in Him(Jesus), you will not die (will have eternal life).

Many people believed in Him but died. Example, the saints, the martyrs, even Mother Theresa.

edi mali ako, sinabi mo eh...ano ang tama? aber?

I asked you a question, "are you a Christian?"

Hindi ko alam kung saan ninyo nakuha ang idea sa tanong ninyo na katawan o espiritu lang. Malinaw na ang binanggit ay "him" at hindi "his body only" o "his spirit only". It was your idea not mine. If that is what you are pointing out paki-linaw ang point ninyo. -NO ANSWER

infinite_trial

12-30-2007, 04:15 PM

pansin ko lang pag merong nagtatanong/kumekwestyon kay sir alexb lagi nyang binabanatan ng "are you a christian"? bakit, ano po ba kung di christian?

timbog

12-30-2007, 04:28 PM

:coffee: bye the book....... OR............... :google:

ambassador

12-30-2007, 07:34 PM

[quote=alexb;439619]edi mali ako, sinabi mo eh...ano ang tama? aber?

You said, to do God's will is:
1. To believe in Jesus- Paano yong hindi naniniwala kay Jesus ngunit naniniwala naman kay God? wala ba silang salvation? Kawawa naman.
2. To behold in Jesus- same question as above.
3. To have eternal life - my question is what does eternal life mean? Your answer is " di namamatay".

Ang opinion ko:
1. Faith without action is dead. Therefore by just believing only to Jesus does not guarantee that you are doing God's will and will give you eternal life. Its on the "mission" and not Jesus itself.

I asked you a question, "are you a Christian?" - Yes! I was baptised in RCC.

Hindi ko alam kung saan ninyo nakuha ang idea sa tanong ninyo na katawan o espiritu lang. Malinaw na ang binanggit ay "him" at hindi "his body only" o "his spirit only". It was your idea not mine. If that is what you are pointing out paki-linaw ang point ninyo. -NO ANSWER.

Yan ang di ko maintindihan yong ginamit mong "him". Bakit "him'? Sino yong 'him".
Nagkaroon ako ng idea na baka ang ibig mong sabihin na "di mamamatay" ay ang katawan or spirit or both since wala kang malinaw na sagot kung ano ang di namamatay. Ang sagot mo lang "him". "him" is a pronoun. Hindi ko tinatanong kung sino. Ang tanong ko , ano ang hindi mamamatay.Kaya dapat noun ang sagot.