Philippines as the newest State of good 'ol US of A?

[pcbuildersam]

what is the possibility of Pinas becoming one of the newest state?what are the advantages?What are the disadvantages?
With all the problems besetting Pinas naisip ko tuloy na mas maganda pa nga 'ata na maging State na ang Pinas ng good 'ol US of A. Biro mo no more visa going to the states.American jin na tayong lahat at tsaka mga anak at anak ng mga anak pa ng mga kung sino pang anak. Wadya say my main man? You think a lot of Pinoys will like this ?This is nothing new .It was first initiated by Senator Manglapuz under the Statehood movement. Dunno what happened my main man.Don't ask me.Maybe it died a natural death. Wanna revive it ?Wadya say,folks?;):rolleye s:

[Paul]

be part of a country that spends more money to send its young men to wage war in another country than use the money to protect its own citizens against natural disasters and provide quick assistance to those affected by these disasters? no thanks.

[Dax]

Remember our national hero wasn't for independence, but for the Philippines to be a province of Spain (and represented in the Cortes, etc.). Siguro kung nangyari yun at that time ok pa.

Pero...the Philippines becoming a state of the U.S.A.? Hmmm how is that possible? Papayag ba ang mga Amerikano na i-absorb ang isang debt-ridden, corruption-infested country like ours? Baka maging disadvantage pa sa kanila kesa advantage. :confused:

[Raiden]

what is the possibility of Pinas becoming one of the newest state?what are the advantages?What are the disadvantages?
With all the problems besetting Pinas naisip ko tuloy na mas maganda pa nga 'ata na maging State na ang Pinas ng good 'ol US of A. Biro mo no more visa going to the states.American jin na tayong lahat at tsaka mga anak at anak ng mga anak pa ng mga kung sino pang anak. Wadya say my main man? You think a lot of Pinoys will like this ?This is nothing new .It was first initiated by Senator Manglapuz under the Statehood movement. Dunno what happened my main man.Don't ask me.Maybe it died a natural death. Wanna revive it ?Wadya say,folks?;):rolleye s:

In my opinion, the possibility of the Philippines becoming a state of the U.S. is probably next to never. It would just be more of a liability than an asset to the U.S. Unless of course the Philippines has abundant reserves of fossil fuel.

What I think the Philippines need are a Nationalistic Leader, and more importantly, Nationalistic Filipinos. It is begging to be ruled with an iron fist to force change that it desperately needs. Extreme situations require extreme measures. The Philippines needs a new start, because the current system is already beyond broken. It needs to rise from the ashes of greed, selfishness, corruption and apathy, so it could survive and flourish in the future.

My dream for the Philippines is that one day, Filipinos won't feel the need to leave our country for a foreign land to pursue a better life, because Filipinos are already living the good life.

One day I will return to my homeland and be part of the change that it rightfully deserves.

[crister]

malabo...

dapat siguro lahat ng pinoy ma experience muna magtrabaho sa ibang bansa like dito sa japan para maintindihan ng lahat gaano kahirap magtrabaho at malaman kung gaano kalaki ang naitutulong ng disiplina.

mauna na siguro ang mga tao sa gobyerno...

[pcbuildersam]

All negatives ,hummmm.Well,can you guys tell that to the thousands of people lining up the walls of the U.S Embassy at Roxas Blvd..waiting to be interviewed by the poker faced man at the visa section?To the millions more residing in US comfortably and peacefully, regularly sending the almighty dollar thereby helping their love ones maintain a decent living.?Can you tell that to the thousands of Pinoys still waiting for their petition coming from their relatives - fiancee visas...etc.etc.?Can you tell that to a number of doctors shifting their careers ,to become a nurse just so they can go to the States.?Man 'o ,man!
I've got US citizenship eligibility 'coz of my military enlistment but chose not.But now I am having some second thoughts.It is not that I am losing hope that Pinas would one day "wake up to a new dawn" but I guess I am just tired,my man.I am getting tired so tired of seeing the same 'ol things .Man ,am I tired!! So f......ng tired!Am I alone? Or are there a million more like me ?Can you blame us?:confused:
Honestly ,would you not go to the States pack up your duffle bag ,together with your family and hop on to the next 747 flight to L.A if and ever you are given a chance?Palagay ko mabilis ka pa sa alas kuatro,my main man:D. But if choose to stay when nine out ten are leaving on that jet plane ,man, I salute you.Pati paa ko nakasaludo.You are one of a kind, and may your tribe increase.

[Dax]

Honestly ,would you not go to the States pack up your duffle bag ,together with your family and hop on to the next 747 flight to L.A if and ever you are given a chance?

Honestly, no I wouldn't go. I'm not like the ordinary Pinoy who dreams of becoming "Kano". Why would I want to go to the U.S.A., a country hated by almost everyone else? :confused:
And L.A.? Eww.

But, if given the chance for another country like Sweden, Norway, Finland, New Zealand or Canada, I think I would consider it. :)

[shinobi_dvno]

Honestly ,would you not go to the States pack up your duffle bag ,together with your family and hop on to the next 747 flight to L.A if and ever you are given a chance?

yes, i'll grab that chance......c'mon guys be practical, would you stay in our country, look for your dream job but would end up in a "dahil-wala-ng-ibang" job, then work, work, work for a measly income. i don't mean to despise but i think we will just be hypocrites if we say no, in the first place, di ba nasa ibang bansa din tayo ngayon, japan nga lang hindi amerika. Taas noo at pinagmamayabang ko na Filipino ako, pero how would i help my poor country, if in effect i cannot even satisfy my basic needs. well, we will always read in the news that professionals are leaving our country, brain-drain daw, you cannot and should not blame this guys rather you should praise them, because i know that someday this guys and gals will pack there bags (at mas mabilis pa sa alas4) and will go home to our beloved PHILIPPINES. not only to share what money they earned but also to impart that knowledge and experience they have learned in those foreign lands to our countrymen, and i say i'll be part of this balikbayans.

how about you guys will you not return?

fyi: the Philippines was vying before to be a state of America (Aguinaldo era) but after granting Hawaii (not sure if it was Hawaii, correct me if i'm wrong) statehood, they closed the doors.

and for the question that the Phil to be the newest state of America? no way, the FILIPINO people can stand alone.

maximize,
dave

........don't just dream, act on it.................

[Raiden]

All negatives ,hummmm.Well,can you guys tell that to the thousands of people lining up the walls of the U.S Embassy at Roxas Blvd..waiting to be interviewed by the poker faced man at the visa section?To the millions more residing in US comfortably and peacefully, regularly sending the almighty dollar thereby helping their love ones maintain a decent living.?Can you tell that to the thousands of Pinoys still waiting for their petition coming from their relatives - fiancee visas...etc.etc.?Can you tell that to a number of doctors shifting their careers ,to become a nurse just so they can go to the States.?Man 'o ,man!
I've got US citizenship eligibility 'coz of my military enlistment but chose not.But now I am having some second thoughts.It is not that I am losing hope that Pinas would one day "wake up to a new dawn" but I guess I am just tired,my man.I am getting tired so tired of seeing the same 'ol things .Man ,am I tired!! So f......ng tired!Am I alone? Or are there a million more like me ?Can you blame us?:confused:
Honestly ,would you not go to the States pack up your duffle bag ,together with your family and hop on to the next 747 flight to L.A if and ever you are given a chance?Palagay ko mabilis ka pa sa alas kuatro,my main man:D. But if choose to stay when nine out ten are leaving on that jet plane ,man, I salute you.Pati paa ko nakasaludo.You are one of a kind, and may your tribe increase.


I understand your sentiment pcbuildersam. And no, I don't blame the people who want to leave the Philippines to find a better life somewhere else. Sa totoo lang umalis din ako papuntang Amerika para makapiling ko ang mga magulang ko. Kahit citizen na ako, nananatili pa rin ang Pilipinas at mga Pilipino sa puso't isipan ko. Kaya sa tuwing may mga hindi magagandang balita tungkol sa Pilipinas ay nasasaktan ang loob ko.

Minsan hindi ko maiwasang itanong sa aking sarili na bakit hindi naging kagaya ng Japan, Singapore at South Korea ang Pilipinas, eh mas mahirap pa nga ang South Korea noon kaysa Pilipinas nang matapos ang Korean War during the 50's. Anong nangyari? Bakit nagkaganoon?

Kaya ang panawagan ko lang, na kahit saan mang lupalop ng mundo tayo mapadpad, eh huwag nating kalimutan ang Pilipinas at pagiging Pilipino. Who knows? Maybe we're the ones who are destined to cleanse the Philippines of the infection that is eating it from the inside.

Peace, my brother.

[stanfordmed]

Each country has its own benefits and drawbacks. In my opinion, one should not speak vaguely or loathe a country unless one had truly experienced and lived in that country for an extended period of time. Besides, it depends also on who is leading that country. Each country is deferent so it’s all up to the individual‘s preference as to which country would benefits/suits his/her lifestyles and beliefs.

As for me, I will reside in a country that I find comfortable. I respect and will not enforce nor disparage any country as I do the same with religion and culture. Besides, I happen tohave good friends that came from many different countries and nationalities and we all get along just fine. ;) http://www.v6performance.ne t/forums/images/avatars/us_flag.gif

[mquial]

bakit mo naman pangangarapin na maging state ng US
Pag nangyari yung meaning balik ang US base sa Pinas
then tayo ay magiging one of the primary targets of nuclear arsenals from China and North Korea
he he he

[Dax]

In my opinion, one should not speak vaguely or loathe a country unless one had truly experienced and lived in that country for an extended period of time. Besides, it depends also on who is leading that country.

My bad for the "eww" about L.A. I wasn't loathing the U.S., I merely said it is hated by almost everyone else, which I believe is true, and the main reason of which is their government's deeds ever since it has become a world power over a hundred years ago. Do we need to live there in order to know these facts of history? Maybe the Kenneday administration was different, but the rest I'm not sure.

We all know that hundreds of thousands of Filipinos, men, women, elderly and children were ruthlessly butchered during the Fil-American war (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9782/) don't we?
"I don't know how many men, women, and children the Tennessee boys did kill. They would not take any prisoners. One company of the Tennessee boys was sent to headquarters with thirty prisoners, and got there with about a hundred chickens and no prisoners."
--Leonard F. Adams, of Ozark, in the Washington Regiment

About the millions of bombs dropped in Laos (http://www.savannanet.com/uslegacy.htm) virtually annihilating the entire country?
According to the experts, the U.S. dropped over 2 million tonnes of bombs in Laos, more than all of the bombs dropped during the World War II.
We know about Vietnam, Iraq, the native Americans et cetera right? Don't get me wrong, coz I don't hate Americans. ;) And saying that the U.S. is hated, is not loathing nor it is lying.

[SIZE="3"][FONT=Papyrus]
Besides, I happen tohave good friends that came from many different countries and nationalities and we all get along just fine. ;) http://www.v6performance.ne t/forums/images/avatars/us_flag.gif
I happen to have very good friends too, from Malaysia,Thailand, Cambodia, Mongolia, Laos, Fiji, Argentina, Germany, Korea, Japan, Singapore, Mexico, Venezuela etc. and just good friends from Vietnam, Brazil, China, Taiwan, Poland, Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Solomon Islands, Tunisia, Nigera, U.S.A., and some acquaintances from other countries...and yes we also get along just fine. ;)

[stanfordmed]

The Cardinal Enquirer

http://inquirer.stanford.ed u
A Publication of the Stanford Graduate Program in Journalism

Home > Authors > Filipinos Have Lowest Poverty Rate Among Asians In U.S., Report Shows
Filipinos Have Lowest Poverty Rate Among Asians In U.S., Report Shows
By Benedict Dimapindan
January 28, 2005

The percentage of Filipinos living below the poverty line is the lowest among all Asian groups in the United States, according to a recent report issued by the U.S. Census Bureau.

The report, “We the People: Asians in the United States,” was released in December and detailed the socioeconomic landscape of Asians nationwide based on 2000 census data. It found that only 6.3 percent of the country’s 1.8 million Filipinos, the second largest Asian demographic after Chinese, failed to meet the poverty threshold.
This stands in a stark contrast to the reality of destitution for Filipinos across the Pacific, back in their homeland.

The annual poverty threshold in America for family of four was listed as $17,029. Conversely, in the Philippines – the world’s 12th-most populated nation – the annual per capita poverty line is just 12,267 pesos –– or $222.79, according to a report issued Tuesday by the National Statistical Coordination Board, the Philippines’ governmental body responsible for policy making and coordination on statistical matters. Fully 24.7 percent of the country’s 86 million people couldn’t even measure up to that line.

“The latest official poverty data indicate that in 2003, about 4.0 million families or 23.5 million Filipinos, [about] a quarter of the country’s total population, were…straining to make ends meet,” NSCB Secretary-General Romulo A. Virola said in a press release.
The disparity in poverty statistics between the two countries is seemingly as vast as the ocean that divides them. One significant factor explaining the contrast is U.S. immigration policy, said Catherine Ceniza Choy, an associate professor of Asian American Studies at UC Berkeley.

The 1965 passage of a set of amendments to the Immigration and Nationality Act – also known as the 1952 McCarran-Walter Act – reversed the decades-long trend of exclusionary immigration practices by the United States. It lifted the national origins quota system and established the allocation of immigrant visas on a first come, first served basis, with a preference “for relatives of U.S. citizens and permanent resident aliens (for the reunification of families) and for persons with special occupational skills, abilities, or training (needed in the United States).”

Thus, it paved the way for an unprecedented wave of arrivals from Mexico, Latin America and Asia, including the Philippines.

“After 1965, U.S. immigration policies shape Asian migrant streams and we see the arrival of highly skilled professional workers,” Ceniza Choy said. “That’s not to say that all migrant Filipino workers are professional. But for example, the U.S. professional nursing shortage brought in a stream of nurses from the Philippines.
“So the poverty disparity is partly a result of those policies attracting highly skilled laborers who’ll work in urban areas where work is in high demand and in occupations that pay more, like nursing and physical therapy.”

And those immigrant workers from the Philippines have certainly made an impact on the American labor force. Filipino women have the highest participation rate – 65.2 percent – among all Asians in the U.S. work force, according the U.S. Census Bureau report. At 71 percent, Filipino rank third behind Asian Indians and Pakistanis. Filipinos also boast the third highest median family income, averaging $65,189 per household. Japanese and Asian Indians finished first and second, respectively.

“Since 1972, President [Ferdinand] Marcos inaugurated an export-oriented economy of goods and labor,” Ceniza Choy said. “To this day we still see the export of domestic workers, entertainers and construction workers to other parts of Asia, Europe and the Middle East. The United States tends to bring in more professional laborers.”
The report also showed that 87.3 percent of Filipinos had at least a high school diploma – the highest rate across the entire U.S. Asian population – and 43.8 percent held a bachelor’s degree or more.

“Filipinos and Filipino Americans view education as a means of social mobility,” Ceniza Choy said. “So the first generation Filipino Americans place a strong emphasis on education for the second generation. That’s not necessarily different from any other immigrant group.

“But culturally, in a historical context, in the late 19th Century wealthy land owners in the Philippines sent their sons and daughters abroad to study professions – medicine, law – in Europe, particularly Spain, and later in the United States. This pattern continued as a sign of elite status. Culturally, we regard education highly in part because of its legacy of elite status, of solidifying elite positions by giving their children an education abroad.”

[houseboy]

My bad for the "eww" about L.A. I wasn't loathing the U.S., I merely said it is hated by almost everyone else, which I believe is true, and the main reason of which is their government's deeds ever since it has become a world power over a hundred years ago. Do we need to live there in order to know these facts of history? Maybe the Kenneday administration was different, but the rest I'm not sure.

We all know that hundreds of thousands of Filipinos, men, women, elderly and children were ruthlessly butchered during the Fil-American war (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9782/) don't we?

;)
Interesting post......... but we also know about the hundreds of thousands of Filipinos, men, women, elderly and children that were ruthlessly butchered and raped during the Japanese Occupation, don't we? Yet, we are here now here in the Land of the Rising Sun , embracing it as our home away from home.;)

Statehood for my beloved country? Hell, why not!!! I would rather be an "AMERICAN" and be hated by everyone else than live in poverty for the rest of my life!

[docomo]

..... Living outside the country of their birth , I don't think it implies a rejection of one's own country ... if that make sense :)

[Dax]

Interesting post......... but we also know about the hundreds of thousands of Filipinos, men, women, elderly and children that were ruthlessly butchered and raped during the Japanese Occupation, don't we? Yet, we are here now here in the Land of the Rising Sun , embracing it as our home away from home.;)

Statehood for my beloved country? Hell, why not!!! I would rather be an "AMERICAN" and be hated by everyone else than live in poverty for the rest of my life!

Interesting post also. But...Japan at least has apologized over and over again for their aggressions in WWII, though not as much as Germany. As for the U.S., have you heard them do the same? About the Fil-Am war? No, don't think so. Kahit ang tagal na, ang mali ay mali pa rin at dapat mag-sorry di ba? How about the Vietnam war? No, don't think so either. How about the "secret" war (it's not even one coz it's bullying to the max) in Laos? No either. That's one great difference between Japan and the U.S. ;)

That is why I don't want to be a citizen of that country which I said, is hated by almost everyone else (I didn't say Americans are hated, which is different). :)

[stanfordmed]

I won’t be where I am today if it weren’t for the opportunities I have had in the U.S.


Grateful, I am. ….I'm just one of those “ordinary Pinoy (Pinay)" who had a dream and no regrets.


Cultural Profile:

Filipino Americans (Fil-Am for short), the second-largest Asian American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_American) community, are American who have attained United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) residency and/or citizenship. There are over 2 million Americans who identified their ancestry as Filipino (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_people).
Antonio Miranda Rodriguez (Filipino) a member of the first group of settlers to establish the City of Los Angeles, California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles%2C_Calif ornia) in 1781.
Filipino-Americans tend to be highly educated.As a result of their level of education, most Filipino-Americans are now in the middle class, and the community enjoys substantial economic well-being.
According to the United States Census Bureau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Census _Bureau), 60,000 Filipino nationals migrated to the United States every year in the 1990s to take advantage of such professional opportunities.
Some Filipino nationals come to the United States for a college or university education, return to the Philippines and end up migrating to the United States to settle.

[Dax]

I won’t be where I am today if it weren’t for the opportunities I have had in the U.S.


Good for you stanfordmed! And to the thousands of kababayans who have succeeded in the U.S. and the millions of others who share your beliefs, which, I do not agree to but respect nonetheless.

[piNkAhOLiC]

I agree with Raiden. The possibilty is NEXT TO NEVER talaga! This idea won't ever be feasible...

Pero If you're gonna ask me kung gusto ko or hindi na maging STATE ang pinas, I say NO, because I don't think it's going to help any. Look at the problems USA has now. Social security problems, problems in the economy due to the war in Iraq. They are currently experiencing a huge budget deficit due to the war. Do we really want to be a part of that? Would we want our men to be drafted in the military and be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan as well?

We have well-educated and fine-skilled citizens; I believe that we don't need to become a US state to solve our country's problems. It's just that there are some elites and the aristocrats who have taken over the country and abused their position to maintain their status. There are also some who were able to serve public office although they don't have the sufficient knowledge to know what they are doing. And who owns the companies which provide our country electricity, telephone service, water, and the like? Aside from these people being big in the business world, don't they also have a big influence in our government? It's all in the system of government and how it works. Maybe we need to change our form of government and change the qualifications of those who want to run for public office or any other government position.

I think the US already has enough problems to worry about saving a country like us and integrating our country to become one of their states. We do have oil, if I am not mistaken, but not enough oil like that of Iraq and those other former states of the formerly called Soviet Union. Unless we have some form of natural resource that will turn their heads in our direction, it is not likely that they will pay attention to us. And anyway, if the US also wanted us to be a state, it would have happened years ago.

If we, by ourselves, already suffer from widespread discrimination of those in the lowly classes, what more if the country becomes a state of the US? Unless you guys have been living under a rock these past decades, you should know that the US as a govenrment, and as a people, has a very disastrous track record as far as discrimination is concerned. (Especially now that it regards everyone with dark skin as a potential terrorist.) I think Americans would never be interested in making the Philippines a US state.

[zpahc]

i dont mind... hehe thats tha place to be right there... wanna get stationed up in clark ab than here in kadena ab.

[pointblank]

I CANNOT believe that this discussion is actually going on concurrent with another thread on Timog Forum asking "are you proud to be a Filipino" and everybody is falling over themselves answering YES to that question! :eek:

Either we have a breakout of split-personality disorders here or a lot of hypocrites... :p

If, as so many of us claim, we are proud to be Filipinos, the argument should not even be on whether or not the US would find enough merit to accept us, but rather on whether we should voluntarily give up our independence.

Another observation: the point made by several members that Filipino immigrants will eventually go back to the Philippines is wishful thinking at best. A study of immigrant socio-cultural patterns will show that this is very unlikely to happen - specially in a country like the US that is open to granting citizenship to immigrants. When you lose them, you lose them forever. Maybe the first generation immigrant might return in their old age (though that is doubtful if you look at the plantation farmers of Hawaii who are still in Hawaii), but you can be assured that their children who were brought up in the States will consider themselves to be nothing but Americans - no matter what their Pinoy parents try to inculcate in them.

Pero teka, pag naging state na tayo ng US of A, mag-ii-snow na rin kaya sa Maynila? Yehey, "I'm dreaming of a White Christmas" !! :D :p

[zpahc]

dapat hindi state ang naka lagay sa subject ng thread. dapat US territory or colony tulad ng puerto rico, guam, virgin islands...etc
malabong madadag-dagan ng star sa flag ng USA.

[stanfordmed]

I CANNOT believe that this discussion is actually going on concurrent with another thread on Timog Forum asking "are you proud to be a Filipino" and everybody is falling over themselves answering YES to that question! :eek:

Either we have a breakout of split-personality disorders here or a lot of hypocrites... :p

If, as so many of us claim, we are proud to be Filipinos, the argument should not even be on whether or not the US would find enough merit to accept us, but rather on whether we should voluntarily give up our independence.

Another observation: the point made by several members that Filipino immigrants will eventually go back to the Philippines is wishful thinking at best. A study of immigrant socio-cultural patterns will show that this is very unlikely to happen - specially in a country like the US that is open to granting citizenship to immigrants. When you lose them, you lose them forever. Maybe the first generation immigrant might return in their old age (though that is doubtful if you look at the plantation farmers of Hawaii who are still in Hawaii), but you can be assured that their children who were brought up in the States will consider themselves to be nothing but Americans - no matter what their Pinoy parents try to inculcate in them.

Pero teka, pag naging state na tayo ng US of A, mag-ii-snow na rin kaya sa Maynila? Yehey, "I'm dreaming of a White Christmas" !! :D :p

Pointblank,
You're back! :yippee: Where have you been? 'Been waiting to read your post here in TF. Miss na kita! :D :bouncy: So glad you're back! :jiggy:

Anyhow, at least sa America kapag sinabi mo na Pinay ka hindi ka pagkakamalan kaagad na hostess or domestic helper kagaya sa Paris, Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong, Saudi, etc.
:p
:yippee: It's snowing!

[zpahc]

^^true dat!!!

[Willy2k5]

what is the possibility of Pinas becoming one of the newest state?what are the advantages?What are the disadvantages?
With all the problems besetting Pinas naisip ko tuloy na mas maganda pa nga 'ata na maging State na ang Pinas ng good 'ol US of A. ;):rolleyes:

I dont think so United States will accept us as part of their states.Malabo na yan kasi na sa Third World countries tayo. Walang makukuha ang US kung hindi sakit ng ulo. Maybe after World War II(in the late 50's) , seguro pwede pa yun, Pero they will use us as a major military base in asia to fight back China, Vietnam, and Korea. In other words, not a very competent federal state ang mangyayari, kung hindi magiging ala "Guantanamo bay" na kulungan ng mga POW, Pusakal at terorista sa buong mundo. Unlike Hawaii, they like it so much because it's the best place or strategic place for defense(to guard the pacific rim) against asian invaders, military experiments(nuclear bomb testing in the late 50's), marine aquatic experiments, satellite stations (major installation of downlink/uplink microwave dish to detect solar activities and starwars-missile defense systems), and lastly it is a paradise for them(sex state for tourist). So Philippines, no way//... They can't even get natural resources like, gold, gas, or oil etc.kasi alam nila na walang wala na.Mayroon pang natitira pero kunti na lang seguro. Swerte lang yung Puerto Rico(US territory) kasi nan dyan pa rin ang tension between Cuba and US. Puerto Rico is also a military base until now and lots of natural resources na magagamit sa US. Speaking of resources, US is interested to control Iraq because they know that Iraq has unlimited supply of oil. right? Kaya they spend billions of dollars kasi they will know in the long period of time, babawi sila. Waa-ezzzz yann ehh. The fact is , US is the biggest consumer of resources in the whole world. Seguro na sa 60%. Ayaw then nila i ratify yung yung Kyoto Protocol kasi makaka apekto sa economic nila. Kaya sabi ni Henry Kissinger(Former US state secretary) to his report NSSM 200(National Security Study Memorandum 200) "Four billion people needed to be eliminated to rid the world on non-eugenics or "USELESS EATERS" who vie with the US and other G-7 countries for the world's natural resources". Who are the useless eaters? sabi nya, these are the terminally ill, the aged, handicapped, the unborn, the Catholics, Jews, and the Black race.

What if Philppines is State of US today, maybe the first proposal of the Federal state;reducing the population(based on NSSM 200) ;major abolition of TRAPO(traditional politician);illimina tion of muslims in mindanao. Seguro that , maganda na seguro ang pinas. Ang mga pinoy na mayayaman hindi na stateside yung mga gamit nila.. nagiging local na.

[betong]

I CANNOT believe that this discussion is actually going on concurrent with another thread on Timog Forum asking "are you proud to be a Filipino" and everybody is falling over themselves answering YES to that question! :eek:

Either we have a breakout of split-personality disorders here or a lot of hypocrites... :p
...

Pero teka, pag naging state na tayo ng US of A, mag-ii-snow na rin kaya sa Maynila? Yehey, "I'm dreaming of a White Christmas" !! :D :p
Can't agree more.
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forum/images/avatars/28636520142ae3875403 66.gif
Also, was thinking of that 'baka mag-snow rin sa Pinas'...

[Dax]

I CANNOT believe that this discussion is actually going on concurrent with another thread on Timog Forum asking "are you proud to be a Filipino" and everybody is falling over themselves answering YES to that question! :eek:

Either we have a breakout of split-personality disorders here or a lot of hypocrites... :p

I actually see some people who both posted there (proud to be Filipino daw) and here (pero "yes" to Pinas becoming a united state). :rolleyes:

[pointblank]

Pointblank,
You're back! :yippee: Where have you been?

Like I told Crispee, nabaon sa trabaho - couldn't even take a toilet break without running to the washroom and back to my seat! At tsaka nag-lamierda din ako ng sandali sa Europe. Pero no worry, as I am not about to propose that the Philippines join the EU if the US rejects us...
:D

Betong, sino yang si Zorro na naghuhuramentado sa message mo? Saan nakakabili ng ganun maskara? Tamang-tama for Halloween! :cool:

Dax: Eksakli da point! That's why I said in the other thread that it was soooo easy to claim to be proud being a Pinoy without really meaning it.:confused:

[betong]

Betong, sino yang si Zorro na naghuhuramentado sa message mo? Saan nakakabili ng ganun maskara? Tamang-tama for Halloween! :cool:

Hi Pointblank, hope you enjoyed your lamierda in Europe. Where did you go? (off topic yata 'to :rolleyes:)
Anyway, the 'Zorro' huramentado guy is from Kill Bill Vol.I. Johnny Mo.
http://killbill.movies.go.c om/vol1/images/castcrew/jmo.jpg Don't know if you can get the same mask. But come to think of it, it could come really handy,　you can be Zorro, Mr. Incredible, Robin the Boy Wonder... Holy flying samurai's Batman!
Or if you're not too proud of being Filipino, you can masquerade as Mr. Incredible, Robin the Boy Wonder...
And if the Pinas becomes part of the EU, then maybe you can be Zorro (wait 'di ba Mexicano yun...).
Then maybe if it does become part of the EU, I can pratice with my licence there (as Zorro).
:peepwall:

[zpahc]

ouch! ugghhh! tinamaan ako dito ah! hehe
bakit ang mga puerto ricans proud to be puerto ricans pero lagi pa nila sinasabing kano sila?! (listen to boriquaz rap) hmmm... pati mga guamian... sinasabi nila chamorro sila pero hindi naman nila proud na sinasabing kano sila.

[pointblank]

ouch! ugghhh! tinamaan ako dito ah! hehe
bakit ang mga puerto ricans proud to be puerto ricans pero lagi pa nila sinasabing kano sila?! (listen to boriquaz rap) hmmm... pati mga guamian... sinasabi nila chamorro sila pero hindi naman nila proud na sinasabing kano sila.


Because Puerto Rico & Guam are already US protectorates - in a sense, Kano na nga sila, so the analogy is not accurate. This is just like a Cebuano saying he is proud to be a Cebuano and at the same time proud to be a Filipino.

In the case of RP vs USA, the Philippines is a SOVEREIGN country that gained independence from the US - so the situation is entirely different. ;)

[zpahc]

I actually see some people who both posted there (proud to be Filipino daw) and here (pero "yes" to Pinas becoming a united state). :rolleyes:

so ibig sabihin wala na kong karapatan i-claim na pilipino ako kasi gusto kong maging part ng USA ang pinas...
sa mga news den, sana wag na nila i-report sa news kung sino yung mga nakakakamit ng karangalan sa ibang bansa. tutal wala naman na sila sa pinas (or hindi na filipino citizen) at wala na silang karapatan i-claim na filipino sila...
pati ung mga kano kong kakilala na sinasabi nilang pilipino sila at caucasian lang ang physical nila walang karapatan mag claim kasi sa totoo naman kano talaga sila at hindi na importante ang pagiging pilipino sa puso...

ganon ba dapat?

[reon]

hmmm. interesting discussions here. :coffee:

eto na naman ang isang thread na madaling mauwi sa hindi pagkakaintindihan dahil "passionate" ang mga tao sa kanilang sagot. friendly advice sa lahat: huwag pong masyadong emotional tungkol sa isang tanong na wala namang patutunguhan.

[Dax]

so ibig sabihin wala na kong karapatan i-claim na pilipino ako kasi gusto kong maging part ng USA ang pinas...

zpahc,

First of all, hindi ikaw ang nakita ko sa thread na yun! :D
Secondly, hindi ko sinabing wala kang karapatan na i-claim na Pilipino ka kasi gusto mong maging part ng USA ang Pinas? Saan ko po sinabi yan? :confused: Please tell me so that I can retract.

What I meant was, "How can someone be proud of his citizenship/nationality if he/she wants his/her country to be absorbed by another?" :confused: There is a difference, a big one which involves the word "proud".

"Pride is a reasonable or justifiable self-respect.", sabi ni Merriam Webster. "Pride refers to a sense of self-respect, a refusal to be humiliated as well as joy in the accomplishments of oneself or a person, group, or object that one identifies in.", naman sabi ni Wiki.

The above definitions fit my understanding of "pride" so please explain to me how can someone be proud to be Pinoy, and yet would wish that Pinas be part of the US? I don't get it. :confused:


sa mga news den, sana wag na nila i-report sa news kung sino yung mga nakakakamit ng karangalan sa ibang bansa. tutal wala naman na sila sa pinas (or hindi na filipino citizen) at wala na silang karapatan i-claim na filipino sila...

They are proud of their Filipino ancestry, but not of their Filipino citizenship or nationality because they don't have those. I'm proud of my ancestry myself but I don't say "I'm proud to be Chinese." coz I'm not. Ibang usapan na yata yung tungkol sa ancestry.

[pointblank]

Just to elaborate further on the point made by Dax, which I agree with and which is actually already clear enough...

The operative word here is "proud". "Being a Filipino" is not the same thing as "proud to be a Filipino". The former is a condition you are born into of which you have no choice, the latter is a state of mind which you consciously choose.

Many Filipinos decide to give up their citizenship, for various reasons. We cannot be presumptious enough to judge this decision since individuals have their own circumstances, and giving up one's citizenship does not necessarily mean that one is not proud of one's original country.

However, how can I claim to be proud of my country and at the same time want the legal status of my country to disappear? There is a very big conflict here...

The corollary point here is that "choosing to become a US citizen" is not the same as "wanting the Philippines to become a state (or part) of the USA", since the latter involves the loss of sovereignity of your original country.

[zpahc]

ohhh!!! gets ko sinasabi mo... nyay! im stupid... haha! :D us citizen lang ako sa papel pero sa puso pinoy pa din ako nah mean? kaya lang ako pumayag maging part ng us ang pinas kasi im selfish. karamihan naman ng mga pinoy na military sa states, tanong nyo kung san nila gusto ma station ang sasabihin nila clark air base. gusto ko kasi ma station sana sa pinas para at least nasa home country ako. magulo ang utak ko. hirap ma-explain. :D hehe peace!

[lonely me]

:) Bakit kaya di nalang pasakop pilipinas sa america, tutal naman yung mga tao sa atin nagpapakanda hirap pumunta sa ibang bansa para magtrabaho. Siguro kung magiging ganon mas safe at mas maganda pa lalo ang pilipinas..

<Mod's note: Threads merged.>

[dcat]

Maganda nga siguro no. pero dalawang mabigat na problema:

1. Mahirap sakupin ang mga taong mulat na sa nasyonalistang pag-iisip
(nationalistically awakened people)
2. Maraming mga makapangyarihang tao sa Pilipinas na taliwas ang interest sa pagbabago


Dahil dyan, sa dalawang problemang yan, sa palagay ko hinding-hindi na pupwedeng mangyari to. :(

Pero, siguro may ibang myembro dito na may ibang opinyon. Ano sa palagay nyo mga ka-TF?

[Dax]

May thread nang ganito:

Philippines as the newest State of good 'ol US of A?
http://www.timog.com/forum/showthread.php?t=793

[Panzar327]

oo nga ano kung maggiging isa sa mga state ng amerika ang pilipinas..may possibility na umahon sa kahirapan ang mga tao dun...:rolleyes:

pero sa palagay ko di papayag ang mga politiko saten...hangat kaya nila di sila pasasakop
kasi syempre pag isa na tayo sa state ng amerika..ang pinuno na natin non mga puti...
baka mawalan na rin ng karapatan ang mga pulitiku satin..ayaw nila yon kasi paano sila makakapangurakot sa bayan non...:rolleyes:

[docomo]

... siguro po kasi , it's cheaper for the US to treat us as if we were still it's colony than to make us a state protectorate. iirc, there was a move in the early 80's yata by a political group to propose that the Philippines be placed under US rule(or something to that effect).

..the particular group was ridiculed for proposing something which was considered a crazy after all. .. after all,they're robbing us blind anyway .. :)

[lonely me]

oo nga ano kung maggiging isa sa mga state ng amerika ang pilipinas..may possibility na umahon sa kahirapan ang mga tao dun...:rolleyes:

pero sa palagay ko di papayag ang mga politiko saten...hangat kaya nila di sila pasasakop
kasi syempre pag isa na tayo sa state ng amerika..ang pinuno na natin non mga puti...
baka mawalan na rin ng karapatan ang mga pulitiku satin..ayaw nila yon kasi paano sila makakapangurakot sa bayan non...:rolleyes:kaya nga sana maawa amerika sa kalagayan ng pinas at sila na mismo ang mag presinta na ampunin nalang pinas. At kung mag bovote cguro amerika na tayo. Ilan lang ba ang mga nangungurakot compare sa naghihirap:O

[NemoySpruce]

"Bakit kaya di nalang pasakop pilipinas sa america, tutal naman yung mga tao sa atin nagpapakanda hirap pumunta sa ibang bansa para magtrabaho. Siguro kung magiging ganon mas safe at mas maganda pa lalo ang pilipinas.."



Tama ka jan. Sigurado, pag naging US state or dependent state ang pinas, mas gaganda ang overall living condition ng bansa. Disadvantages lang is panghabang buhay na tayo naka kandong kay uncle sam. Ang mga business na lalago ay predominantly american corporations, so aayawan to ng mga lopez, tan, ayala at lahat ng mga big business boys sa pinas. Pero, ang makikinabang nito ay middle class at mga mahihirap. Kahit maraming masama ang nasasabi tungkol sa mga amerikano, kesyo, racist, tamad, walang galang etc... may systema sila, at kahit papano na-aasahan ang systema nila. Pero ang da best jan ay, ang sweldo natin ay dolyar, at hindi na tayo mahihirapan pumunta sa US. So, tingin ko, middle class pababa (90% ng populasyon) ay makikinabang kapag dumuktong tayo sa US. Kaso, malabo na tong mangyari, sa kalagayan ng economya ngayon. Nagkaroon ata ng opportunity nung panahon ni Quezon, inoffer ng US na iduktong ang pinas, kaso sempre, tinangihan, hinala ko mga big business boys ang tumangi nun at ngayon..eto na tayo ngayon.

[abakitba]

"I prefer a country run like hell by Filipinos to a country run like heaven by Americans. Because, however bad a Filipino government might be, we can always change it.
Manuel L. Quezon"

Obviously we do not think like ML Quezon.
You and I would be more like...
I prefer to leave the Filipino-run motherland,
work in a country of former invaders of my country, so I can feed my family and better my lot in life.
Would I be wrong?
Don't think that the second part of MLQ's statement has proven true either.

[infinite_trial]

"I prefer a country run like hell by Filipinos to a country run like heaven by Americans. Because, however bad a Filipino government might be, we can always change it.
Manuel L. Quezon"


oh i think this is the same motto the people rallyin in the streets of EDSA are followin.

so much for the American dream...for it will just remain a dream.

[andres]

Arayy! Nangingilo ang gilagid koh! Wala na ba talagang paggalang sa sarili ang mga Pilipino??

[Dkid]

Don't like to become a pawn of Uncle Sam.
I adhere to ML Quezon

[Stacie Fil]

Arayy! Nangingilo ang gilagid koh! Wala na ba talagang paggalang sa sarili ang mga Pilipino??


He,he,he.

[abakitba]

so much for the American dream...for it will just remain a dream.
Not sure what you mean by American dream... but here's my take...
What's the Filipino dream... exit visa.
What's the Pinoy success story... US green card.

[abakitba]

Don't like to become a pawn of Uncle Sam.
I adhere to ML Quezon
Since I live in Japan, I can only be a pawn of Emperor Hirohito's descendants.
Would that be right?

[andres]

Since I live in Japan, I can only be a pawn of Emperor Hirohito's descendants.
Would that be right?

I don't see the connection...

[abakitba]

to andres
I don't see the connection...
Originally Posted by Dkid
Don't like to become a pawn of Uncle Sam.
I adhere to ML Quezon

I replied to Dkid's post.
with....
Since I live in Japan, I can only be a pawn of Emperor Hirohito's descendants.
And I asked...
Would that be right?

Does that help?
What would your reply to my question be?

to Dkid
But 'adhering to ML Quezon' would mean... living in the Philippines... wouldn't it?

[andres]

Ok, now I think I see what you mean.

But I think MLQ was referring to *the Philippines* being run by the Americans (as opposed to being a Filipino living in America). And take note, the thread is about "pagpapasakop ng Pilipinas sa Amerika". Therefore, I think your comment re: living in Japan sort of missed the point... peace! ;)

[halloween]

Naalala ko lang nung pinatalsik ang US bases nung early 90's, sobrang pagpupunyagi ng mga PInoy. Sabi ng marami, finally nakamit din ng PInas ang status ng isang sovereign nation. Take note, ganon na lang ang pride ng mga Pinoy na sa loob ng maraming taon eh nawala na tayo sa anino ng mga Kano. Bases lang ang issue non ha ganon na lang reaction ng mga tao.

You can just imagine kung anong klaseng reaction ang makukuha mo sa mga kababayan natin kung i popropose ang gantong idea na "magpapasakop" pa ang PInas. Bases nga lang gustong gustong patalsikin eh magpasakop pa kaya. Abay maraming mag huhuramentado nyan at isa na 'ko don.

[abakitba]

Ok, now I think I see what you mean.

But I think MLQ was referring to *the Philippines* being run by the Americans (as opposed to being a Filipino living in America). And take note, the thread is about "pagpapasakop ng Pilipinas sa Amerika". Therefore, I think your comment re: living in Japan sort of missed the point... peace! ;)
Are you critiquing my post for going off topic...
or for it's content?
What would MLQ think of Pinoys that leave the USA and don't go home (to stay)...
would he think they were traitors... for leaving his hell...
or heroes, for sending wealth to that hell?
Would he agree to his conceited comment... rather be in hell?
Obviously most of us here do not agree with MLQ... because we're not in that beautiful hell called Pinas.
I'd rather be an idiot in Japan, than a genius in the Philippines.

[andres]

Hey hey hey let's simmer down a bit.

All I'm trying to say is that perhaps you were taking MLQ's statement out of context. I have no idea how he would think of the current situation, of course, but I think in that quote he was referring to his feelings re: having the Philippines run by the Americans (which, incidentally, is also the original subject of this thread). But I think you were talking about Filipino emigration, which is a different matter. That's all.

Also I would argue that simply living in another country does not imply anything about how you feel about your country of birth (but that is OT. OT is bad. Bad, bad. :))

[fisher]

:) Bakit kaya di nalang pasakop pilipinas sa america, tutal naman yung mga tao sa atin nagpapakanda hirap pumunta sa ibang bansa para magtrabaho. Siguro kung magiging ganon mas safe at mas maganda pa lalo ang pilipinas..
Mas maganda nga siguro pero hanggat maaari ay ayaw kong gamitin ang salitang "pasakop" siguro mas maganda ang annexation or becoming a state.All of a sudden ay American citizens tayong lahat at ang utang ng Pilipinas ay utang na ng buong U.S.A. and uunlad sigurado ang Pilipinas as a new State.Mababawasan ang kahirapan dahil tatay na natin ang dating tinatawag nating Uncle Sam.Siyempre siya ang kakalinga sa atin at maniniguro sa ating mabuting kinabukasan.Haaayyyy yyy lonely me,ang sarap talagang mangarap:D .

[abakitba]

Also I would argue that simply living in another country does not imply anything about how you feel about your country of birth (but that is OT. OT is bad. Bad, bad. :))

It implies that you left the Philippines because... you feel that other places provide you
more pay, better opportunities, gentler living, a safer life than the PI.
It implies that one left cause the Philippines is a motherland that can no longer provide.

When a TF'er posts a question about the PI reverting back to it's old status as colony of the USA, it implies that Pinoys are making Hell a worse place.
Would I be wrong? Please let me know.

[lonely me]

:) Mas maganda nga siguro pero hanggat maaari ay ayaw kong gamitin ang salitang "pasakop" siguro mas maganda ang annexation or becoming a state.All of a sudden ay American citizens tayong lahat at ang utang ng Pilipinas ay utang na ng buong U.S.A. and uunlad sigurado ang Pilipinas as a new State.Mababawasan ang kahirapan dahil tatay na natin ang dating tinatawag nating Uncle Sam.Siyempre siya ang kakalinga sa atin at maniniguro sa ating mabuting kinabukasan.Haaayyyy yyy lonely me,ang sarap talagang mangarap:D .:) ok , sorry for using word "pasakop" feeling hopeless lng tlg sa pinas. tnx sa pag linaw ng tinutumpak ng thread ko.

[Raiden]

Ayaw ko na maging estado ng Amerika ang Pilipinas. Nais ko pa ring manatiling isang independent o sovereign nation ang Pilipinas. Ano na lang ang kalalabasan nating mga Pilipino kung tayo pa mismo ang hihiling na magpasakop. Busog nga ang bulsa natin, pero makakalakad pa kaya tayo nang taas noo, makakatingin pa ba tayo nang deretso sa mga taga-kapit bansa natin? Ngayon nga eh medyo mahirap nang gawin yon, lalo na siguro kung nagpasakop tayo sa ibang bansa.

Bakit ang Singapore inayawan nila na magpatuloy sila as a colony of Britain. Pobre din sila nung umalis ang Inglatera, pero tingnan mo na sila ngayon, malalampasan na nila ang Switzerland as the banking capital of the world. Ano kaya ang sekreto nila?

Marahil nagtataka kayo kung bakit ganito ang aking pananaw, samantalang ako'y naninirahan dito sa Estados Unidos. Ako ay pinanganak na isang Pilipino, lumaki na isang Pilipino. Ang Pilipinas ang nagaruga sa akin mula't pagkabata hanggang sa paglaki. Tinatanaw kong isang malaking utang na loob yon sa bayang sinilangan. Pumunta ako dito sa Amerika para makasama ang mga magulang ko at madagdagan ang aking kaalaman at para makaipon ng pera para pagbalik ko sa Pilipinas ay meron akong puhunan para makapag negosyo. Marahil ganyan din ang plano niyo kaya kayo nasa Japan.

Sa tingin ko, kahit kaninong bansa pa tayo magpasakop kung hindi natin isasatama ang mga nakagisnang hindi kanaisnais na pag-uugali, wala pa rin kahihinatnang maganda ang Pilipinas.

What have you done to my country, Filipinos? What have you done? :mad:

[Paul]

It implies that you left the Philippines because... you feel that other places provide you
more pay, better opportunities, gentler living, a safer life than the PI.
It implies that one left cause the Philippines is a motherland that can no longer provide.
I think that assumption is wrong. Not all Filipinos think like this. There are a lot of Filipinos who go abroad to study and return to the Philippines to impart the knowledge they obtained in their studies. There are those who go to other countries to learn new technologies so they could apply them to their work back home. There are those who live abroad because they have no choice (their families took them there).
What have you done to my country, Filipinos? What have you done?
I think the correct statement is, What have we done to our country, Filipinos? What have we done?

[Raiden]

I think the correct statement is, What have we done to our country, Filipinos? What have we done?

True. Thanks Paul. :)

[NemoySpruce]

Ayaw ko na maging estado ng Amerika ang Pilipinas. Nais ko pa ring manatiling isang independent o sovereign nation ang Pilipinas. Ano na lang ang kalalabasan nating mga Pilipino kung tayo pa mismo ang hihiling na magpasakop. Busog nga ang bulsa natin, pero makakalakad pa kaya tayo nang taas noo, makakatingin pa ba tayo nang deretso sa mga taga-kapit bansa natin? Ngayon nga eh medyo mahirap nang gawin yon, lalo na siguro kung nagpasakop tayo sa ibang bansa.


Medyo contradictory ang statements mo kapatid. Salahat ng nangyayari ngayon sa pilipinas, sinong pinoy ang makakapag lakad ng taas noo? ... mas importante sayo ang pride mo kesa sa ilang milyong batang nagugutom sa bayan? ikaw ba masasabi mo sakin na proud ka pa din maging pinoy?


Bakit ang Singapore inayawan nila na magpatuloy sila as a colony of Britain. Pobre din sila nung umalis ang Inglatera, pero tingnan mo na sila ngayon, malalampasan na nila ang Switzerland as the banking capital of the world. Ano kaya ang sekreto nila?

Di mo ba nabalitaan kung ilang tao na ang binitay sa Singapore? authoritarian rule sila, galing na tayo jan, naaalala mo ba si Marcos? Pwede to gawin sa pilipinas, sino ang pipiliin mong maging presidente kung ganun?


Marahil nagtataka kayo kung bakit ganito ang aking pananaw, samantalang ako'y naninirahan dito sa Estados Unidos. Ako ay pinanganak na isang Pilipino, lumaki na isang Pilipino. Ang Pilipinas ang nagaruga sa akin mula't pagkabata hanggang sa paglaki. Tinatanaw kong isang malaking utang na loob yon sa bayang sinilangan. Pumunta ako dito sa Amerika para makasama ang mga magulang ko at madagdagan ang aking kaalaman at para makaipon ng pera para pagbalik ko sa Pilipinas ay meron akong puhunan para makapag negosyo. Marahil ganyan din ang plano niyo kaya kayo nasa Japan.


Brother, bat ka pa babalik sa pilipinas? dun ka mag nenegosyo? kung talagang seryoso kang entrepreneur, dehins ka na babalik tol, lugi business mo sigurado. Kung gusto mo talaga umuwi at ipang tulong ang ipon mo, wag mo isiping business kungdi charity ang mangyayari. Wag mo expect na babalik ang investment mo.. malabo yun.


Sa tingin ko, kahit kaninong bansa pa tayo magpasakop kung hindi natin isasatama ang mga nakagisnang hindi kanaisnais na pag-uugali, wala pa rin kahihinatnang maganda ang Pilipinas.

What have you done to my country, Filipinos? What have you done? :mad:
Sorry pare .. at sorry sa mga taga TF, pero nakaka-init ng tenga lang pag nakakadinig ako ng ganitong hirit galing sa mga Pinoy na mahimbing na namumuhay sa ibang bansa.. kung alam mo lang kung anong hirap na ng mga kababayan mo. What have you done?? pusa ikaw nga nasa states.

Kung pride lang ang dahilan nyo kung bakit ayaw nyo 'pasakop' or pa-annex eh kalokohan yun diba? Why not admit that we do not have the capability to run our own country? We do not deserve to walk proud! We cannot even unite our own people? Our most noticebale achievement is People Power, a democratic revolution... do you know how stupid that sounds? Im surprised its not used to define OXYMORON. Nationalistic pride is good, but it cannot feed starving children. We need help. Our country is sick. If you dont like the americans, i can understand, but we need help. Misplaced Nationalistic pride can be more harmful than anything.

--peace pareng Raiden, I know you mean well. I hope you dont take my post personally, I hope everyone understands my point.

[abakitba]

I think that assumption is wrong. Not all Filipinos think like this. There are a lot of Filipinos who go abroad to study and return to the Philippines to impart the knowledge they obtained in their studies. There are those who go to other countries to learn new technologies so they could apply them to their work back home. There are those who live abroad because they have no choice (their families took them there).
I think that assumption is wrong. Not all Filipinos think like this.
Sure, not ALL, but MOST.

There are a lot of Filipinos who go abroad to study and return to the Philippines to impart the knowledge they obtained in their studies. There are those who go to other countries to learn new technologies so they could apply them to their work back home.
A LOT more Filipinos stay or try to stay and convert their status from student to worker to resident. Witness alone the TF threads requesting info on how to do this.

There are those who live abroad because they have no choice (their families took them there).
They can always go back home when they are 'of legal age'. Though I have seen a couple... like Martin Nieviera and Troy Montero, they haven't given up their US passports.

[lonely me]

Me I understand u nemoyspruce. Desame kasi tayo ng nararamdaman. Nagdurugo nga ang puso ko sa iba kong nababasa, pero can`t reply to them, not good in english kasi.

[Paul]

Me I understand u nemoyspruce. Desame kasi tayo ng nararamdaman. Nagdurugo nga ang puso ko sa iba kong nababasa, pero can`t reply to them, not good in english kasi.

Pwede kang magsulat sa Pilipino o Nihonggo. Gamitin mo ang salita kung saan mo maipapaliwanag nang mabuti ang nasa isip mo.

[lonely me]

:O Pwede kang magsulat sa Pilipino o Nihonggo. Gamitin mo ang salita kung saan mo maipapaliwanag nang mabuti ang nasa isip mo.:O nahihiya kasi akong mag-kamali sa sasabihin ko .

[dcat]

:O :O nahihiya kasi akong mag-kamali sa sasabihin ko .

sana hwag kang mahiya dahil wala namang maling opinion eh. ang discussion natin ay hindi pagalingan kundi bigayan at pagsi-share ng ating nalalaman sa iba para maikumpara nating lahat ang ibat-ibang opinion, at tayo na ang bahalang mamili kung anong pinakamaayon sa ating pag-iisip. :)

[NemoySpruce]

Me I understand u nemoyspruce. Desame kasi tayo ng nararamdaman. Nagdurugo nga ang puso ko sa iba kong nababasa, pero can`t reply to them, not good in english kasi.
Ok lang naman kahit pano mo ma express ang gusto mong sabihin. Busina lang muna baka may masagasaan ka. Pero handa ka din na may mga sasagot sa opinyon mo. Nakaka luwag ng pakiramdam kasi na may mga ibang taong kapareho mo ng nararamdaman. Pero pag may nag comment against you, masakit din, pero part yun ng Forum, kaya post lang ng post!

[lonely me]

ok . Pero ok lng naman kahit di mag reply sa mga nag post diba . Baka kasi sabihin nila nag open ng thread tapos di naman nag rereply.

[abakitba]

Originally Posted by Raiden
Bakit ang Singapore inayawan nila na magpatuloy sila as a colony of Britain. Pobre din sila nung umalis ang Inglatera, pero tingnan mo na sila ngayon, malalampasan na nila ang Switzerland as the banking capital of the world. Ano kaya ang sekreto nila?



Originally Posted by NemoySpruce
Di mo ba nabalitaan kung ilang tao na ang binitay sa Singapore? authoritarian rule sila, galing na tayo jan, naaalala mo ba si Marcos? Pwede to gawin sa pilipinas, sino ang pipiliin mong maging presidente kung ganun?


To categorize Singapore as authoritarian rule would be criminal, at the least... naive. Singapore is a parliamentarian republic. They elect their officials.
The difference is they have Rule of Law.
Some people consider their criminal punishments to be medieval but it seems to be effective.
In spite of this, I am mostly on NemoySpruce side of this particular discussion.

[Raiden]

Medyo contradictory ang statements mo kapatid. Salahat ng nangyayari ngayon sa pilipinas, sinong pinoy ang makakapag lakad ng taas noo? ... mas importante sayo ang pride mo kesa sa ilang milyong batang nagugutom sa bayan? ikaw ba masasabi mo sakin na proud ka pa din maging pinoy?

Bakit sila nagugutom? Di kaya sa mga pabayang magulang na walang pakundangan sa pag-aanak, pero ni mga sarili nila ay hindi nila kayang buhayin?
Proud pa ba ako as a Pilipino? Of course I am still proud, I will always be proud. Kahit malaki ang problema ng Pilipinas, mas marami parin ang nagawang mabuti nito para sa akin. Kung hindi naging mabuti sa akin ang Pilipinas, wala ako sa kinalalagyan ko ngayon. Kaya mahirap para sa akin na basta na lang i-handover ang sovereignty ng Pilipinas. Magagawa mo bang ibenta ang nagpalaki sa iyo para guminhawa ka?



Di mo ba nabalitaan kung ilang tao na ang binitay sa Singapore? authoritarian rule sila, galing na tayo jan, naaalala mo ba si Marcos? Pwede to gawin sa pilipinas, sino ang pipiliin mong maging presidente kung ganun?

Lee and Marcos are worlds apart. Malaking insulto kay Lee Kuan Yew(first Prime Minister of Singapore) ang ikumpara kay Marcos. Sa tingin mo ba kung kagaya ni Lee si Marcos, makakamit kaya ng Singapore ang tinatamasa nitong kaunlaran? Authoritarian nga ang Singapore, but look at them now. They've found the perfect balance of democracy and restriction.
Lee's concerns are: 1.) National Security 2.) Economy 3.) Social Issues
Marcos' concern is: Rob as much as I can from the Philippines, whatever it takes


Brother, bat ka pa babalik sa pilipinas? dun ka mag nenegosyo? kung talagang seryoso kang entrepreneur, dehins ka na babalik tol, lugi business mo sigurado. Kung gusto mo talaga umuwi at ipang tulong ang ipon mo, wag mo isiping business kungdi charity ang mangyayari. Wag mo expect na babalik ang investment mo.. malabo yun.

Well, you'll never at baka pagising mo isang araw ay natauhan na ang mga Pilipino at nagising na sa bangungot na kasalukuyan nitong tinatamasa. Kung hindi man, I still want to leave behind a legacy that I tried to better my homeland in my own little way.


Sorry pare .. at sorry sa mga taga TF, pero nakaka-init ng tenga lang pag nakakadinig ako ng ganitong hirit galing sa mga Pinoy na mahimbing na namumuhay sa ibang bansa.. kung alam mo lang kung anong hirap na ng mga kababayan mo. What have you done?? pusa ikaw nga nasa states.

Gaya ng sabi ko, nandito ako dahil gusto kong lumawak pa ang aking kaalaman at makapag-ipon para balang araw sa aking pagbalik sa Pilipinas ay well-equipped ako.


Kung pride lang ang dahilan nyo kung bakit ayaw nyo 'pasakop' or pa-annex eh kalokohan yun diba? Why not admit that we do not have the capability to run our own country? We do not deserve to walk proud! We cannot even unite our own people? Our most noticebale achievement is People Power, a democratic revolution... do you know how stupid that sounds? Im surprised its not used to define OXYMORON. Nationalistic pride is good, but it cannot feed starving children. We need help. Our country is sick. If you dont like the americans, i can understand, but we need help. Misplaced Nationalistic pride can be more harmful than anything.

It's not that I don't like Americans, I like the Americans, I think they are great people, but I won't just handover to them my homeland's sovereignty. It is not about pride, it's about a homeland for our children to inherit, a land that belongs to us from the very beginning.
Bakit yung mga iba nakikipagpatayan para magkaroon ng sariling lupa, tapos tayo basta-basta lang isusuko ang sariling atin? I don't get it. :confused:

--peace pareng Raiden, I know you mean well. I hope you dont take my post personally, I hope everyone understands my point.

Peace din pareng Nemoy. :)
Don't worry, I'm a big boy. I can take whatever you throw at me. Do your worst. I will expect nothing less. :D

[NemoySpruce]

good call abakitba. I have to admit, minimal kaalaman ko sa gobyerno at kalagayan ng Singapore. parliamentarian pala sila. Pero, diba pag nahuli kang ngumunguya ng bubble gum, lalatayin ka? tapos recently yung isang australian citizen, nahulihan ng drugs, despite extensive pleas for mercy, binitay sha. Kakaiba ang pamamalakad nila dun, mahigpit. Pero hindi ko nga alam kung ang power ay nasa gobyerno or nasa citizens, ang tingn ko nasa gobyerno eh, mali nga ata pag ka gamit ko ng authoritarianism.. anyway, malalayo tayo sa topic ni lonley_me... mag start tayo ng ibang thread :D basta ibig kong sabihin ay, Iron Grip style of governance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism

[NemoySpruce]

:D We have difference of opinion but we're calmly debating about it..

Bakit sila nagugutom? Di kaya sa mga pabayang magulang na walang pakundangan sa pag-aanak, pero ni mga sarili nila ay hindi nila kayang buhayin?


Correct. And its the duty and basic function of the government to address this social issue. Pero anong nangyayari? Puro politika at power struggles. Basic needs of the citizens are not being met. Its been like this for over 20 years. Habang nag aantay tayo at nag iipon sa ibang bansa, araw araw isipin mo kung anong klaseng kahirapan to... ever mis breakfast? ako minsan kasi pag nagmamadali nakakalimutan kong kumain, pag dating ng alas-jis sakit na ng sikmura ko pare kelangan ko kumain..now imagine that pain, multiply it 3x, tapos isipin mo nararamdaman ng 3 year old kid....multiply that to how many millions (hindi ko kasi alam kung ilang bata nagugutom eh) this is what your country is facing ..every single day. Tapos i-babaling lang natin sa.. eh kasi magulang nila mga walang kwenta... poof.. nawala na? ganun lang yun?


Proud pa ba ako as a Pilipino? Of course I am still proud, I will always be proud. Kahit malaki ang problema ng Pilipinas, mas marami parin ang nagawang mabuti nito para sa akin. Kung hindi naging mabuti sa akin ang Pilipinas, wala ako sa kinalalagyan ko ngayon. Kaya mahirap para sa akin na basta na lang i-handover ang sovereignty ng Pilipinas. Magagawa mo bang ibenta ang nagpalaki sa iyo para guminhawa ka?


I think its time, we should all stop being proud. We should admit we are sick. I think you are confusing dignity with pride. You can give up your pride but keep your dignity. We should stop being proud, fix ourselves up so we can then stand tall and truly say, i am proud to be Filipino. its absurd. Imagine a person half starved to death and addicted to shabu, standing tall and telling you that he is proud to be himself... ibenta ang bansa? sinong bibili nun? thats an in-accurate analogy for what this thread is asking.


Lee and Marcos are worlds apart. Malaking insulto kay Lee Kuan Yew(first Prime Minister of Singapore) ang ikumpara kay Marcos. Sa tingin mo ba kung kagaya ni Lee si Marcos, makakamit kaya ng Singapore ang tinatamasa nitong kaunlaran? Authoritarian nga ang Singapore, but look at them now. They've found the perfect balance of democracy and restriction.
Lee's concerns are: 1.) National Security 2.) Economy 3.) Social Issues
Marcos' concern is: Rob as much as I can from the Philippines, whatever it takes

yes medyo malabo ang point ko dito. let me clarify. I wasnt comparing Lee with Marcos, Im comparing singapore's current style of government with martial law. the basic similarity is rule by fear. Is there freedom of the press in Singapore? hindi ko alam masyado eh. please enlighten me.


Well, you'll never at baka pagising mo isang araw ay natauhan na ang mga Pilipino at nagising na sa bangungot na kasalukuyan nitong tinatamasa. Kung hindi man, I still want to leave behind a legacy that I tried to better my homeland in my own little way.

good good. pareho tayo dito pare.


Gaya ng sabi ko, nandito ako dahil gusto kong lumawak pa ang aking kaalaman at makapag-ipon para balang araw sa aking pagbalik sa Pilipinas ay well-equipped ako.

Lamang ka pa sakin dito pre, ako nandito kasi ako for selfish reasons... mas maginhawa dito eh.


It's not that I don't like Americans, I like the Americans, I think they are great people, but I won't just handover to them my homeland's sovereignty. It is not about pride, it's about a homeland for our children to inherit, a land that belongs to us from the very beginning.
Bakit yung mga iba nakikipagpatayan para magkaroon ng sariling lupa, tapos tayo basta-basta lang isusuko ang sariling atin? I don't get it. :confused:

Sovereignity? what sovereignity? The entire country is run by less than 1 percent of the population. People are still opressed by poverty and lack of education. Basic needs? kanya kanya na. Im sure lahat ng pilipino na nag buwis ng dugo para sa 'kalayaan' ay umuubos ng tatlong sakong mura minuminuto... a homeland for our children to inherit? what about the children starving right now? who says that it has to be permanent. Eventually when we learn to govern properly, we may become trully independent.

[Raiden]

:D We have difference of opinion but we're calmly debating about it.

Yes, I believe this is a healthy discussion that allow us to learn from our different points of view. :)


Correct. And its the duty and basic function of the government to address this social issue. Pero anong nangyayari? Puro politika at power struggles. Basic needs of the citizens are not being met.

I agree. It is undeniable that our current government and politicians are screwed up. Lahat gusto mamuno para mas malaki ang makurakot. Pero hindi trabaho ng gobyerno ang mag provide para sa mga mamamayan, unless it's a socialist or a communist government, which the Philippines is not, and I wouldn't want it to be. Ang trabaho ng gobyerno is to make, interpret and enforce the rules. Ang mga mamamayan ang dapat magpo-provide sa kanilang mga sarili. We need to equip our selves with the right tools i.e. education, discipline, and nationalism, then the government will inevitably follow suit. Change has to start with us, the people of the Philippines.


I think its time, we should all stop being proud. We should admit we are sick. I think you are confusing dignity with pride. You can give up your pride but keep your dignity. We should stop being proud, fix ourselves up so we can then stand tall and truly say, i am proud to be Filipino. its absurd. Imagine a person half starved to death and addicted to shabu, standing tall and telling you that he is proud to be himself... ibenta ang bansa? sinong bibili nun? thats an in-accurate analogy for what this thread is asking.

The first step in curing our nation's illness is admitting that we are sick, so yes I am not disputing the fact that the Philippines is sick, but let's not lose hope towards it while we are processing the cure, otherwise it might get worse. We should pay attention on improving our selves first than focusing on the plight of the downtrodden and less fortunate until we acquire the the proper tools to better our country. I believe this is a better way to help the less fortunate, because if the country gets better, their lives will get better. We are the future of the Philippines.


yes medyo malabo ang point ko dito. let me clarify. I wasnt comparing Lee with Marcos, Im comparing singapore's current style of government with martial law. the basic similarity is rule by fear.

All I can say is, it is better to be feared than to be loved. In a figurative sense of course, because otherwise there will be anarchy.


Lamang ka pa sakin dito pre, ako nandito kasi ako for selfish reasons... mas maginhawa dito eh.

Improving yourself and living comfortably in another country is not selfish or traitorous, as long as you don't turn your back from your homeland. Heck! I'm learning and living comfortably in another country too. Sabi nga ng mga matatanda "ang hindi marunong lumingon sa pinanggalingan ay may stiff neck." :D


Oh, by the way. Palaki na nang palaki ang gastos at utang ng Amerika. Billions of dollars, could reach trillions na ang nagagastos sa Iraq. Kung makuha man nila ang Pilipinas, mahihirapan silang mag-subsidise para sa Pilipinas. Bokya din.

[NemoySpruce]

Pero hindi trabaho ng gobyerno ang mag provide para sa mga mamamayan, unless it's a socialist or a communist government, which the Philippines is not, and I wouldn't want it to be. Ang trabaho ng gobyerno is to make, interpret and enforce the rules. Ang mga mamamayan ang dapat magpo-provide sa kanilang mga sarili. We need to equip our selves with the right tools i.e. education, discipline, and nationalism, then the government will inevitably follow suit. Change has to start with us, the people of the Philippines.


Its not that simple. How is it possible for the government to 'provide' for the people? san ba nila nakukuha ang pera na pang 'provide'? diba sa taxes? san galing ang taxes? sa tao din... ganto yan eh, kunwari organize ka ng EB, ang organizer ay ang gobyerno. ideally dapat lahat ng pupunta equal ang bayad, kaso yung iba mas malaki ang sweldo kesa sa iba, yung iba walang pang bayad, pwede mo sabihin na yung walang pera wag na pumunta, or pwede mo sabihin na, sige kaya ng buget natin, punta kayo kahit libre, sagot kayo nung may mga sweldo... kung mahusay ka na organizer magagawa mong lahat maka punta. Kaso mo ang gobyerno natin, binulsa ang pera at ininvest sa pachinko... sa susunod na EB pinalitan nyo organizer..ganun din ginawa. paulit ulit. ngayon may member na nagtanong..ok lang kaya kung magpaorganize tayo sa iba? yung may experience? what your saying is.. no way! id rather na laging failure ang EB kesa magpaorganize tayo sa hindi taga TF!! ... diba wierd? why not try and see kung pano magagawa ng outsider? we are not doing any better, can it get any worse? I dont think so.



....We are the future of the Philippines.

no brother.. we are the philippines...


All I can say is, it is better to be feared than to be loved. In a figurative sense of course, because otherwise there will be anarchy.

I agree. But can you honestly say youd rather live in fear than in love? Ask your parents about martial law days before you answer.



Oh, by the way. Palaki na nang palaki ang gastos at utang ng Amerika. Billions of dollars, could reach trillions na ang nagagastos sa Iraq. Kung makuha man nila ang Pilipinas, mahihirapan silang mag-subsidise para sa Pilipinas. Bokya din.
Yes their trade deficit is getting bigger, and they say that soon foriegners will own large portions of the US. so what? These foriegners will still have to follow american law, safe pa din si John Doe, he will still get to eat his big mac and drink his budweiser while watching football on his flatscreen TV.. while si Juan de la Cruz? probably pondering if he should take that offer to deal shabu so he can buy some food, and feed his 2 kids and his pregnant wife.

Im not saying that if the Phils becomes part of US that all our problems will disappear. Im against the knee jerk reaction most pinoys have when it comes to relinquishing our so called 'sovereignty' to other more developed nations. We need to open our minds if we are to find a proper solution to our problems. Is it possible that Jose Rizal had the correct idea all along? I mean he was educated, and had a global view of things... but we chose to follow the Katipunero way... Independencia!! ... great. now that we have it anong ginagawa natin?

[Dkid]

ang ganda nang discussion ninyo guys. all points are well taken. napakalawak ng kaalaman ninyo. pero ang pinakamaganda rito, ay nirerespeto ang opinyon ng bawat isa.
I'll go with Raiden.

[abakitba]

to Raiden...
"Pero hindi trabaho ng gobyerno ang mag provide para sa mga mamamayan, unless it's a socialist or a communist government, which the Philippines is not, and I wouldn't want it to be. Ang trabaho ng gobyerno is to make, interpret and enforce the rules. Ang mga mamamayan ang dapat magpo-provide sa kanilang mga sarili. We need to equip our selves with the right tools i.e. education, discipline, and nationalism, then the government will inevitably follow suit. "

Pero hindi trabaho ng gobyerno ang mag provide para sa mga mamamayan
Couldn't agree with you more on this point.

trabaho ng gobyerno is to make, interpret and enforce the rules.
This is the part where the Philippine govt falls short... way short.

The last part, mostly if not totally correct is tricky. Leadership has its role, and so does education, etc. The most educated, disciplined, even nationalistic Pinoys are leaving. Wish I had an answer.

[fisher]

ang ganda nang discussion ninyo guys. all points are well taken. napakalawak ng kaalaman ninyo. pero ang pinakamaganda rito, ay nirerespeto ang opinyon ng bawat isa.
I'll go with Raiden.
Magkadugo tayo pareng Kapampangan Bisdak pero kay Nemoyspruce ako he,he,he.:D .

[Dkid]

Magkadugo tayo pareng Kapampangan Bisdak pero kay Nemoyspruce ako he,he,he.:D .

Dehado ata kami kabalen, pero dipa naman tapos ang labanan, baka ka sa bandang huli...
tuluyan kaming dehado! Malay natin mamaya, magsilabasan naman yung sa amin. maganda dito di tayo napapalo,
Tnx

[dcat]

hindi ko na mapigilan, sige sasagot na nga ko,

unang-una lahat ng problema nanggagaling sa mga tao at sa kultura ng tao. There are lot's of things that Filipino culture is good at, but it also has a lot of bad things. For example, palakasan, tatamad-tamad, dependence, at madaling makontento. Just remember that the government is just a small reflection of the masses. Ang kultura ng mga pangkaraniwang pinoy ay kultura din ng mga politiko. If the government does not represent the masses as they want them to be they have the inherent right to depose that government, because the power of the government is derived from the people.

Look at ourselves, our relatives, our friends, and our acquaintances, we all have the potential for corruption. For power, we'd do anything, even though most of the time it's not for the good of our country. The point is that however you'd like to think of it, the government is the people.

I remember somewhere here that Nemuyspruce-san wrote and suggested Raiden-san to not go back to the philippines and build a business because he said that it wouldn't pay off. This is just the same as telling all the Filipinos abroad to abandon their country.

While nemuyspruce-san's suggestion that businesses in the philippines would never achieve success is still arguable, I would just focus on the benefits of going back home and doing business in our country. There are three benefits that will accrue from this behavior, first, expertise accumulated abroad would be employed at home, second, savings (foreign currencies included) will be brought back home to the philippines and used by people who are relatively better in hadling money, third, due to these businesses other filipinos will benefit because some of them will be employed to help manage these businesses.

However, nemuyspruce-san advice instead to just give our money in charity. This would be the same as encouraging what is happening right now there. Charity would not change anything, but just encourage status quo, that is, dependence, laziness, and contentment. Haven't people heard of the well-known Chinese saying? - "Don't give him fish, teach him how to fish".

By advocating the "annexation solution" it seems nemuyspruce-san and also some other people on this thread have totally lost their faith on Filipino's own ability to work out their problem themselves - a self-defeating behavior.

This thread is about the possibility and the benefits of the Philippines becoming a part of the US. I'd say the possibility close to zero, because states with nationalistically awakened people are not feasible place to control and occupy, and second there are so many entrenched interests in the Philippines that would not allow a new power to encroached itself and take away the power that Filipino elites have always held.

Now, why is this topic being discussed here? Because we'd like to think that when the Philippines becomes a part of the U.S. most of our problems would disappear. Maybe this claim has some merit, however everything is not perfect as if everything is gonna get solve after we're branded U.S. citizens. We still need to work hard, we still need to change our habits. You see, maybe the scenario would be that they would send great statesmen to manage the "Philippine problem" and they will tell us how to behave ourselves differently, tell us to "follow rules or else..." Isn't that just the same as in the situation where we change ourselves on our own? Change is the keyword here.

Some people here talked about how subsidies that the Americans would donate to the Filipinos might solve problems in the Philippines, yes, this might be true to some extent, but that subsidies will not make ordinary filipinos rich overnight. They still have to toil their ass up to build bridges and roads. Maybe some people here think that the Japan and other countries became rich countries overnight, but if we only saw how much the japanese people worked so hard with so much discipline while with meager income after the second world war until now, we'll know that power of the country is not found in its politicians or elites, it resides with the people and the people's culture - only the actions and behavior of people determines their future.

No one could save us but ourselves. No one could save the Philippines but US, not the U.S., but us, all of us. It's hard of course, no one is saying it's not. However, Filipinos try to scape the hardship and go to other countries, and if they can they stay abroad permanently. Individuals who could leave, will leave, because that's the most rational step to take, individually, that is. However, for all the Filipinos collectively, no. But there's no blaming here, all people have the right to their decisions whichever they choose. But for those people who left and don't want to come back, I'm afraid that the future of the Philippines is beyond their reach.

The focus here is that we still could change the Philippines. That is, only if we don't loose faith that we could, because the very moment that one person gives up the Philippines looses one possible chance of changing itself. And if all of us loose our faith, then the Philippines becomes nothing more than a place where many poor people live, a place to step on other people to get what we desire, a place where politics do not represent the interests of uneducated poor people, and a place where economics works as a tool for exploitation. "Why?" you asked. Because the moment we give up, everything doesn't matter anymore except ourselves.

If we are annexed by the U.S. they need to kill these things to manage the philippines successfully, and to be able to do this Filipinos must change. Why can't we change ourselves on our own? Do we really need somebody to force change on us? Not necessarily, I think Philippines just need a great shock! A great shock that would send tremors deep within us and destroy some fundamental values that are slowly eating us away. Until that day however, we should not dwell on fantacies and on easy fixes, cause there aren't such things. Greatness requires a lot of patience, hardwork, and sacrifice. Everybody knows this, our grandmothers thought us these things. We don't need to write the actual solutions here, we know by heart what would help the Philippines as a whole, it's just that it's difficult. In our case, the dilemma is that our individual rationality is opposed to collective rationality of filipinos. What would you choose?:)

[d_southpaw]

Agree with all the points you've made, dcat. Wish I do not have to respond right away, so that a lot can see/read it. Together with whoever strongly disagree with it. It is worth a read during their 'resei' time.

I will just add a few ideas:

As far as business is concerned, I will also hope to see highly successful Filipino firms wherever they are now. As long as, one way or the other, they will look back to their motherland and perhaps do something meaningful for the country, like establish business there as well in the future. Highly successful business is not local anyway. There is the whole world to win, which unfortunately, only the several highly advanced countries are enjoying. Kaya maraming ultra rich at marami rin talagang mayayaman. Buong mundo ba naman ang market nila.

Hopefully, we will see some brilliant Filipinos here in Japan, who will be able to make use of their talents - multiple language skills, multiple culture awareness, other technical skills - and put together successful businesses.

Next is about charity. There might be other appropriate word for it, but in general I was under the impression that helping deserving students - regardless as to whether they are one's relatives or not - fall into this category. I strongly support movements on helping those deserving youths. And I also believe that it is one of the correct ways to help someone be able to be intelligent and independent after years of studies and hard work. I have actual experiences to prove that it works positively. I have since helped several relatives and a few non-relatives to get educated. Most of them are now on their own, professional in their own field, after several years of our sacrifices. But from day one, I was clear to them that the money I chose to use to them are product of my hard work. There is no easy money, even in this progressive country.

Just like Tonyang, I also help start a scholarship movement amongst the people I know and we are sending several college students. I believe it is one of the way, with highest possibilities of producing intelligent, hard working and caring individuals. They can then pass the same good traits to whoever they can help.

I agree about the other things that you mentioned about the need to be careful so that those that are left in the Phil will not develop the dependent attitude.

As for the main topic of this thread, medyo rongai yong idea of annexation.

We have the same wishes too, that in general, there will be more and more of
us Filipinos who will really care for the country, and start the changes on his/herself.
Tooooo long a shot. But a journey to a million miles still start with one step.

[NemoySpruce]

Good day dcat, thanks for commenting sa comments ko :)

hindi ko na mapigilan, sige sasagot na nga ko,
unang-una lahat ng problema nanggagaling sa mga tao at sa kultura ng tao.
There are lot's of things that Filipino culture is good at, but it also has a lot of bad things. For example, palakasan, tatamad-tamad, dependence, at madaling makontento.

This statement can be applied to all races. Not just Filipinos. There is palakasan in Japanese culture, may katamaran din sila, they also have dependencies, at madaling makontento. Bakit sila successful tayo hindi? They have a system of government that suppresses the bad parts of their culture, and enhances the good parts.


Just remember that the government is just a small reflection of the masses.

I have to disagree, our government is made up of the elites, malayo sila sa 'reflection ng masses'


Ang kultura ng mga pangkaraniwang pinoy ay kultura din ng mga politiko.

What?? are we talking about Philippines here?


If the government does not represent the masses as they want them to be they have the inherent right to depose that government, because the power of the government is derived from the people.

Unfortunately this is not a reality in the Phils. The masses have no control whatsoever over the outcome of any government decision. EDSA revolutions I II III, prove this. Elections are meaningless. The masses have no control because they lack information and education to make correct effective decisions. The power of our government is derived from money, he who has the gold, makes the rules.


Look at ourselves, our relatives, our friends, and our acquaintances, we all have the potential for corruption. For power, we'd do anything, even though most of the time it's not for the good of our country.

This is also true for the entire human race.


The point is that however you'd like to think of it, the government is the people.

not in the Philippines. The government is a small portion of the people who are detached from their constituents. They have ambitions and goals entirely separate from the 'people'.. GMA's priority is to fend off opposition trying to get her deposed, the people's primary goal is to find something to eat.


I remember somewhere here that Nemuyspruce-san wrote and suggested Raiden-san to not go back to the philippines and build a business because he said that it wouldn't pay off. This is just the same as telling all the Filipinos abroad to abandon their country.

I said if he was a serious entrepreneur he should not go back to the Philippines, because any business that he will start there will most likely fail. I dont see why this is the same as 'abandon your country'. It is just a statement of a fact. The economic situation in the Philippines is like typhoon signal number 3 for Raiden's banca, would you tell him to go to a storm with his banca?


While nemuyspruce-san's suggestion that businesses in the philippines would never achieve success is still arguable, I would just focus on the benefits of going back home and doing business in our country. There are three benefits that will accrue from this behavior, first, expertise accumulated abroad would be employed at home, second, savings (foreign currencies included) will be brought back home to the philippines and used by people who are relatively better in hadling money, third, due to these businesses other filipinos will benefit because some of them will be employed to help manage these businesses.

Yes this is good. I agree, but you need an aircraft carrier..not a banca.


However, nemuyspruce-san advice instead to just give our money in charity. This would be the same as encouraging what is happening right now there. Charity would not change anything, but just encourage status quo, that is, dependence, laziness, and contentment. Haven't people heard of the well-known Chinese saying? - "Don't give him fish, teach him how to fish".
I did not advice Raiden-san to give to charity, I said that if he started his business in the Phils, it would be 'like' giving to charity, because his hard earned savings will be gone.


By advocating the "annexation solution" it seems nemuyspruce-san and also some other people on this thread have totally lost their faith on Filipino's own ability to work out their problem themselves - a self-defeating behavior.

OK. first of all, I do not advocate 'annexation solution'. I have neither the understanding nor the skill required to even try to suggest that such a solution would work. I am against the 'knee jerk' reaction a lot of Filipinos have against 'annexation solution'. Most of you say 'no way, we cannot do that! its like turning our backs against our country!' ... What I want to hear is.. 'no it wont work because... ' I want a real reason why we should not try it. So far all the reasons I have heard in this thread are pointless, borne out of misplaced Nationalistic pride.

But you are slightly correct when you say I have lost Faith in our people. I have lost faith in our government's ability to do what needs to be done to alleviate suffering of our people. Im not blaming them, its a tall order.kumbaga basketbol, last 2 minutes na, 60pts ang lamang, tapos ang coach tumatangap ng lagay sa kabilang team... aba, talo na yan pare. Its not defeatist, its a reasonable assesment of the situation. Pero, possible nga na manalo pa! biglang na injure ang starplayer ng kalaban at nag 3 points ng nag 3 points..20 tuluy tuluy...possible, pero magkano ipupusta mo?


This thread is about the possibility and the benefits of the Philippines becoming a part of the US. I'd say the possibility close to zero, because states with nationalistically awakened people are not feasible place to control and occupy, and second there are so many entrenched interests in the Philippines that would not allow a new power to encroached itself and take away the power that Filipino elites have always held.

I agree.


Now, why is this topic being discussed here? Because we'd like to think that when the Philippines becomes a part of the U.S. most of our problems would disappear.

no. Ive said that that wont happen.


No one could save us but ourselves. No one could save the Philippines but US, not the U.S., but us, all of us.

Why? Why can the solution not be from outside help? What is it in your brain that is preventing you from getting help? could it be pride?? think!! how long will you wait before you say we cannot do it ourselves.


If we are annexed by the U.S. they need to kill these things to manage the philippines successfully, and to be able to do this Filipinos must change. Why can't we change ourselves on our own? Do we really need somebody to force change on us?

yes? because if we cannot change ourselves, how else will you change?


Not necessarily, I think Philippines just need a great shock! A great shock that would send tremors deep within us and destroy some fundamental values that are slowly eating us away.

What kind of shock? We have experienced so much turmoil that the masses are already immune to shock... My japanese officemates panic when they see, Coup quelled in Philippines.. I just say 'Oh thats normal'. We get 'shocked' everyday.


Until that day however, we should not dwell on fantacies and on easy fixes, cause there aren't such things. Greatness requires a lot of patience, hardwork, and sacrifice. Everybody knows this, our grandmothers thought us these things. We don't need to write the actual solutions here, we know by heart what would help the Philippines as a whole, it's just that it's difficult.

We know by heart?? wait, so your saying, no to annexation idea because its a 'quick fix and a fantasy' but your suggesting 'shock' therapy, and that we already know the solutions 'by heart'... we just have to wait..wait wait.


In our case, the dilemma is that our individual rationality is opposed to collective rationality of filipinos. What would you choose?:)
This a dilemma for the entire population of the planet we call Earth.

My argument is this;

If Jose Rizal himself were alive today, and we voted him president, he would still be hard pressed to fix up our country. We need people who have uniquely high intelligence, are well informed, selfless, fearless and when needed, ruthless, but with a sense of justice that is above all of us Filipinos living today. Im saying we need the Superfriends, now they could fix up the country good. Jesus Christ, would also probably do well. I have to say, I am outclassed by this problem, I cannot do anything to solve it. I can try, do my part, and pray. But nothing I do will ever change the Philippine situation. Sounds defeatist? probably, but for sure that is the reality. When presented with the scenario 'what if we are annexed by the US' my reply is; it would greatly alleviate poverty and suffering of Filipinos. Not solve all the problems, as I am sure there will be a lot of strings attached, but undoubtedly alleviate some suffering. I do not see this as giving up, turning your back on your country etc.., its just a quick fix until the Superfriends show up, or until Christ's second comming.

[Raiden]

why not try and see kung pano magagawa ng outsider? we are not doing any better, can it get any worse? I dont think so.

Let an outsider run our country? Can it get any worse?
Hellloooooo!!! Have you heard about Iraq lately. They are on the brink of a Civil War, for crying out loud.
Outsiders won't care, it is not their country. The only thing they will care about are the things that will benefit their own country.


I agree. But can you honestly say youd rather live in fear than in love? Ask your parents about martial law days before you answer.

I would rather live in a just, secure and prosperous society where the citizens respect the rule of law and fear the repercussions and consequences of deviating from the rules than to live either in an Anarchist's wet dreamland or in a Communist's utopia.
Note: Being feared is not synonymous with being a tyrant.


Yes their trade deficit is getting bigger, and they say that soon foriegners will own large portions of the US. so what? These foriegners will still have to follow american law, safe pa din si John Doe, he will still get to eat his big mac and drink his budweiser while watching football on his flatscreen TV.. while si Juan de la Cruz? probably pondering if he should take that offer to deal shabu so he can buy some food, and feed his 2 kids and his pregnant wife.

Hindi lang trade deficit ang problema. Federal and State budget deficit pa. Marami na silang programs na binabawasan from budget for schools to the benefits of Veterans. Yes you heard me right, balak nilang bawasan ang mga benefits ng mga sundalong nakipaglaban at kasalukuyang lumalaban para sa kanila. Sino kaya sa tingin mo ang magbabayad ng mga utang na yon? Siyempre yung future generations. Kaya huwag na tayong umasa pa na maging isang Estado ng America. Baka sa susunod mangarap naman tayong maging miyembro ng European Union! :eek: :D Haaayyyy. Ang Blonde ambition naman talaga nating mga Pinoy. :p


Im not saying that if the Phils becomes part of US that all our problems will disappear. Im against the knee jerk reaction most pinoys have when it comes to relinquishing our so called 'sovereignty' to other more developed nations. We need to open our minds if we are to find a proper solution to our problems. Is it possible that Jose Rizal had the correct idea all along? I mean he was educated, and had a global view of things... but we chose to follow the Katipunero way... Independencia!! ... great. now that we have it anong ginagawa natin?

I agree with you that we need to open our minds, but we also need to open our eyes and our hearts to work on the solutions for our country. Surrendering our sovereignty is not one of the solutions. For the short term maybe, but in the long run...
So Rizal wanted to make the Philippines to be a legitimate part of Spain. Just look what the Spaniards did to him. I rest my case. :cool: :D

P.S.

Instead of wishing for our country to be a part of the West, why not make them wish for their country to be a part of the East? :)

Peace. My brother.

[NemoySpruce]

Let an outsider run our country? Can it get any worse?
Hellloooooo!!! Have you heard about Iraq lately. They are on the brink of a Civil War, for crying out loud.
Outsiders won't care, it is not their country. The only thing they will care about are the things that will benefit their own country.

Iraq != Philippines, totally different situation. Your argument is based on paranoia. How about looking at Guam (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/gq.html), click the link , scroll down to economy overview... your reaction right there, with the 'helooooo!' bit is what pisses me off. Alam mo, hindi lang dahil middle class automatic ibig sabihin nagiisip. I have a lot of friends whose families are below the poverty line, but would never post a comment like that. Not even as a joke.



I would rather live in a just, secure and prosperous society where the citizens respect the rule of law and fear the repercussions and consequences of deviating from the rules.
Note: Being feared is not synonymous with being a tyrant.

People who respect the rule of law do not need to fear the enforcers. I disagree, being feared is synonymous with being a tryant. That is how a tyrant keeps his power. Fear is borne out of ignorance. You are feared because people do not know what you will do. It is not the same as being respected.



Hindi lang trade deficit ang problema. Federal and State budget deficit pa. Marami na silang programs na binabawasan from budget for schools to the benefits of Veterans. Yes you heard me right, balak nilang bawasan ang mga benefits ng mga sundalong nakipaglaban at kasalukuyang lumalaban para sa kanila. Sino kaya sa tingin mo ang magbabayad ng mga utang na yon? Siyempre yung future generations. Kaya huwag na tayong umasa pa na maging isang Estado ng America. Baka sa susunod mangarap naman tayong maging miyembro ng European Union! :eek: :D Haaayyyy. Ang Blonde ambition naman talaga nating mga Pinoy. :p

You mis-understand, the annexation scenario does not only mean we will share their budget. In addition, national security will be improved, economy will be safer for small business like your 'banca', the storm will subside a bit if not entirely. Large foriegn investors will invest in our country, and hopefully we can participate more in the world economy.

Blonde ambition? if you mean, every pinoys dream of having a more safe, comfortable, productive life, blonde ambition, then dye my hair and call me Sally. :D


I agree with you that we need to open our minds, but we also need to open our eyes and our hearts to work on the solutions for our country. Surrendering our sovereignty is not one of the solutions. For the short term maybe, but in the long run...

We do not have sovereignty in our country. less than 10% of the population control it. Is that what you call sovereignty?


So Rizal wanted to make the Philippines to be a legitimate part of Spain. Just look what the Spaniards did to him. I rest my case. :cool: :D

Is this a joke? is that supposed to be funny? bad form dude.....


P.S.

Instead of wishing for our country to be a part of the West, why not make them wish for their country to be a part of the East? :)
This has got to be the stupidest thing I have heard so far... its not about east and west.. its about effective and non-effective means of governing a unique culture. Its about the evolution of global politics, and the need for our country to keep up. Its about our government failing in its purpose to provide us with peace, order, basic necessities and basic human rights... hingah... may nakikinig pa ba sakin? ako na lang ata nagsasalita.... :D

[andres]

ehem ehem.... just a reminder... let's try to keep things civil, OK? Calling someone's opinion "stupid" is not civil.

I think everyone has a point although sometimes we wish not to see it. Let's take a deep breath... remember, our country has had these problems for a looong time now, so I think we have all the time in the world to discuss this peacefully. :)

I just want to ask a question: to the people who say that the Philippines annexed by the US will be a much safer place, do you really think so? Given our geographic location and with the threat of global terrorism on the rise? Please consider this question seriously before answering.

[Paul]

Take a deep breath, everyone. Just like the crab said. Deep breaths. There you go.

Ok, now the question that has been lingering on my mind is what would be the reason for the US to annex the Philippines? There would be no economic advantages for them, in fact we would just add to the burden. The only use we might have for the Americans is as a home for their military presence in Southeast and East Asia, but since Japan is still friendly with them and letting them sleep in her house, we practically have no use to them...

....unless someone finds out that our country is is sitting on top of huge deposits of oil. When that happens, we don't even need to ask them to come. They'll even wage a war for us if they have to ;).

People who respect the rule of law do not need to fear the enforcers. I disagree, being feared is synonymous with being a tryant. That is how a tyrant keeps his power. Fear is borne out of ignorance. You are feared because people do not know what you will do. It is not the same as being respected.

When you think of the Filipino people, which do you think is more effective for them to follow the rule of law? Respect or fear?

Not all fear is borne out of ignorance. During the Marcos years, people did not fear Marcos because they did not know what he would do, they feared Marcos because they knew precisely what he would do.

[Raiden]

Iraq != Philippines, totally different situation. Your argument is based on paranoia. How about looking at Guam (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/gq.html), click the link , scroll down to economy overview... your reaction right there, with the 'helooooo!' bit is what pisses me off. Alam mo, hindi lang dahil middle class automatic ibig sabihin nagiisip. I have a lot of friends whose families are below the poverty line, but would never post a comment like that. Not even as a joke.

I apologize for the "Hello!" comment. I didn't mean to offend you. It was meant to be as a playful gesture, not as an insult. Sorry po. :O

You know that Guamenians never obtained independence ever since the U.S. annexed it. OK, US territory ang Guam, so they are U.S. citizens, mataba ang bulsa, pero hindi kasing taba ng mga taga-mainland, protectado sila ng U.S., pero hindi sila pwedeng bumoto during presidential elections. US commonwealth ang Puerto Rico, never really obtained independence, US citizens din sila, pero gaya ng Guam, hindi rin sila pwedeng bumoto during presidential elections. Kung naging commonwealth ng US ang Pilipinas, marahil mas kagaya natin ngayon ang Puerto Rico. Kuntento ka na ba sa ganun?

Dati ang Pilipinas ang 2nd most prosperous country in Asia, behind Japan. Anong nangyari sa atin at naging ganito ang kalagayan ng ating bayan? Di kaya dahil naging complacent tayo?

To be continued>>>

[NemoySpruce]

ok. maybe 'stupid' is too strong.. i retract it.. and replace it with inept.

@andres - you have a valid point. But Im not clear on what you are saying. Terrorists are in middle east, Im not sure what you mean by 'Geographic location'... medyo malayo naman tayo dun. But yes, I would think that if we allow ourselves to be annexed by US or some other First world country, one of the conditions may be that we participate more on the 'War on Terror'. We may become targets for terrorist movements... BUT our soldiers would be well equiped and properly trained to handle aggression. Dude, check out the condition of our armed forces now. Then remember that there are Al Qaeda trained insurgents in mindanao. Whats stopping them from hijacking an airplane and crashing it into Malacanang? I posted a news article the other day, about a government consultant saying that RPG that can shoot down commercial aircraft are in the hands of these terrorist. Do you feel safe? Because we have no ties to US or EU? well, i feel safe, because Im in Japan. Japan by the way is also in almost the same geographic region as Phils. why do I feel safe here? Japan has participated actively in the war against Terror, Japan has strong economic ties with the US. But to answer your question, do I really think Phils will be safer? My answer would have to be.. I dont know, but Im sure it wont be worse than it is now.

[andres]

Dude, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

I can't see how anyone could feel confident about the US military right now. I'm sure you're aware that the US has made a complete frickin mess in Iraq. That country is on the brink of civil war as we speak.

About 'malayo naman tayo dun', consider where the Al Qaeda have been training. I think the Philippines will become a PRIME target for terrorist attacks were we to become an American territory. Just my 2-en.

[infinite_trial]

Ok, now the question that has been lingering on my mind is what would be the reason for the US to annex the Philippines? There would be no economic advantages for them, in fact we would just add to the burden. The only use we might have for the Americans is as a home for their military presence in Southeast and East Asia, but since Japan is still friendly with them and letting them sleep in her house, we practically have no use to them...


that's the same question the Americans probably been askin emselves too and why im findin such difficulty answerin this thread. they can't even decide what to do wit the Philippines before. they planned to use as before as a port for their goods but they feared migration of Filipino laborers durin the great depression. they only found a way to dump us by giving us independence after 10 years (errr sorry i forgot what from what year). choosin Hawaii over Philippines won't hurt cuz they only have a lil population, even if Hawaii consists mostly of different races than the natives. moreover, our country is overpopulated (thanks to the Cory Administation for those 8-hour power outage), very poor, and a home to "some" terrorists.

again so much for the American Dream!

[Raiden]

continuation...

You mis-understand, the annexation scenario does not only mean we will share their budget. In addition, national security will be improved, economy will be safer for small business like your 'banca', the storm will subside a bit if not entirely. Large foriegn investors will invest in our country, and hopefully we can participate more in the world economy.

It will not be feasible for the US to annex the Philippines even if Filipinos really want it to become a part of the US. What's in it for them if they annex the Philippines? OK, thanks for the heads up, I wiil bring a submarine instead of a banca with matching torpedos and ballistic missiles. :D


Blonde ambition? if you mean, every pinoys dream of having a more safe, comfortable, productive life, blonde ambition, then dye my hair and call me Sally. :D

All right, Salvacion. :p


We do not have sovereignty in our country. less than 10% of the population control it. Is that what you call sovereignty?

Filipinos still elect the leaders of the Philippines. So yes, it is a sovereign nation.


This has got to be the stupidest thing I have heard so far... its not about east and west.. its about effective and non-effective means of governing a unique culture. Its about the evolution of global politics, and the need for our country to keep up. Its about our government failing in its purpose to provide us with peace, order, basic necessities and basic human rights... hingah... may nakikinig pa ba sakin? ako na lang ata nagsasalita.... :D

You missed my point. What I'm trying to say is we should strive to improve ourselves, our society, our country so that instead of admiring them, they will be the ones who will be admiring us. Can you dig it? :)