What is the meaning of Revelation 13? [Archive] - Timog Forum

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alexb

04-19-2006, 12:55 AM

Rev 13:1 And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns {were} ten diadems, and on his heads {were} blasphemous names.

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like {those} of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.

Rev 13:3 {I saw} one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed {and followed} after the beast;

Rev 13:4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"

Rev 13:5 There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, {that is,} those who dwell in heaven.

Rev 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, {everyone} whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

Rev 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.

Rev 13:10 If anyone {is destined} for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

Rev 13:11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.

Rev 13:12 He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.

Rev 13:13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.

Rev 13:14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life.Rev

13:15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

Rev 13:16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,

Rev 13:17 and {he provides} that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, {either} the name of the beast or the number of his name.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

Bangis

04-19-2006, 09:09 AM

An evil dictator called the Antichrist, described in Revelation 13, is in my opinion Russian (http://www.revelation13.net/Russians.html) President Putin (http://www.revelation13.net/Putin.html), and an evil alliance of the dragon-lion-bear (from Revelation 13: the Antichrist has the mouth of a lion, feet of a bear, and gets his power from the dragon) is Red China (http://www.revelation13.net/China.html)-Hong Kong (Hong Kong a former British colony, so the Lion symbol)-Russia, which is forming as part of the SCO alliance against the U.S., consisting of Russia, China, and 4 Central Asian (former Soviet) nations:

<Admin: The rest of the article is deleted.>

nick

04-19-2006, 11:04 PM

alexb

04-20-2006, 01:01 AM

Bangis

04-20-2006, 01:13 PM

Please note that copy-pasting contents from other webpages into Timog Forum is against the Rules. You can include a paragraph or two from the original article, write your comments and provide the link.

You are really cool man, hehehe papano kung tinype ko magdamag yong post ko maibabalik mo ba yong kasiyahang nararamdaman ko habang tina-type ko ang message ko?

Sinaktan mo ang puso ko brod.. BAD ka.. :cry:

To All moderators: I know you are the one who have rights to do this.. but please do it in a good way.. I may be with Gabby's opinion.

You are the one Nick...Keep it up!! :) GOD Bless

alexb

04-20-2006, 03:05 PM

PROPHETIC SYMBOLS

SYMBOLS--------------------------------------MEANING

Day---------------------------------------------Year
Beast, Horns, Heads--------------------------Kings, Kingdoms, Nations
Wind-------------------------------------------War, Strife
Water------------------------------------------People
Wings------------------------------------------Speed
Pure woman, Virgin--------------------------Christ's true church
Harlot------------------------------------------False church

Stacie Fil

04-20-2006, 09:24 PM

The Bible interprets itself, ang Rev. 13 ay related sa Daniel 2 and 7. Siguro pag-aralan natin ang mga bible symbolism...

example:
beast - means "kingdom"

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. -Dan 7:23

So, you are saying that the verses were given in symbolic form. Can you present now the real meaning in laymans langguage. Para naman clear din naming maintindahan.

Medyo naguguluhan lang po. Di po ba na si Daniel ay sa old testament. Then itong revelation ni John ay sa new testament. Ano po ang clear relation nang dalawa?

alexb

04-22-2006, 12:59 AM

Yes, may relation yung 2. Maganda kung babasahin muna natin ang Daniel 2. Ibigay ko muna ang 2 types ng prophecy sa bible...

There are two general types of prophetic writings: nonapocalyptic prophecy as found in Isaiah and Jeremiah, and apocalyptic prophecy as found in Daniel and the Revelation. These differing types have different characteristics:

(a) Nonapocalyptic prophecy addresses God's people; apocalyptic is more universal in scope.

(b) Nonapocalyptic prophecy often is conditional in nature, setting forth to God's people the alternatives of blessing for obedience and curses for disobedience; apocalyptic emphasizes the sovereignty of God and His control over history.

(c) Nonapocalyptic prophecy often leaps from the local crisis to the end-time day of the Lord; apocalyptic prophecy presents the course of history from the time of the prophet to the end of the world.

(d) Time prophecies in nonapocalyptic prophecy generally are long, for example, 400 years of Israel's servitude (Gen. 15:13) and 70 years of Babylonian captivity (Jer. 25:12). Time prophecies in apocalyptic prophecy generally are phrased in short terms, for example, 10 days (Rev. 2:10) or 42 months (Rev. 13:5). Apocalyptic time periods stand symbolically for longer periods of actual time.

Apocalyptic prophecy is highly symbolic and should be interpreted accordingly. In interpreting symbols, the following methods may be used:

(a) Look for interpretations (explicit or implicit) within the passage itself (for example, Dan. 8:20, 21; Rev. 1:20).

(b) Look for interpretations elsewhere in the book or in other writings by the same author.

(c) Using a concordance, study the use of symbols in other parts of Scripture.

(d) A study of ancient Near Eastern documents may throw light on the meaning of symbols, although scriptural use may alter those meanings.

Sa Daniel 2, si king Nebuchadnezzar ay nanaginip, pinakita sa kanya ng Dios ang takbo ng world history, from his kingdom to the 2nd coming of Christ. Sa Daniel 7 naman ay ganun din pero si Daniel ang nanaginip at ibang symbols ang ginamit at mas mahaba ang details.

Sa Rev. 13 naman ay ang continuation ng Daniel 7 kung saan prophecied ang ecumenism, pagka-alis ng "separation of church & state", rise to super-power ng USA.

Sa susunod na lang yung details...antok nako eh :)

Stacie Fil

04-23-2006, 03:58 AM

Sa susunod na lang yung details...antok nako eh :)

O sige, hihintayin ko.

alexb

04-24-2006, 12:22 AM

Daniel 2

Head of Gold-----------------Babylon (605 to 539 B.C.)
Breast and arms of Silver---Medo-Persia (539 to 331 B.C.)
Thighs of Brass--------------Greece (331 to 168 B.C.)
Legs of Iron------------------Rome (168 B.C. to 476 A.D.)
Mixture of Iron and Clay----Modern Europe

Mixture of Iron and Clay:
Anglo-Saxons (England), Franks (France), Alemanni (Germany), Lombards (Italy), Burgundians (Switzerland), Suevi (Portugal), Visigoths (Spain), Heruli, Vandals, Ostrogoths

Bakit yung tatlo walang katapat na modern country sa Europe? Nasa Daniel 7, yun yung binunot ng maliit na sungay.

Yung bato na tumama sa paa at sumira sa rebulto ay sumisimbulo sa ikalawang pagbabalik ni Cristo. May nagsasabing ito raw ang unang pagpunta Niya rito sa lupa nung ipinanganak Siya sa Bethlehem at itinatag ang Iglesia. Ngunit pansinin natin, nung tumama ang bato nawala ang buong rebulto, meaning dapat kaharian na lang Niya ang umiiral ngayon, pero andiyan pa rin ang mga bansa. (take note: sa panahon ng Europe tumama ang bato, so sa panahon natin darating Siya dahil umiiral pa ang Europe)

alexb

04-24-2006, 12:42 AM

http://www.champs-of-truth.com/lessons/METALMAN.jpg

docomo

04-24-2006, 08:07 PM

Medyo naguguluhan lang po. Di po ba na si Daniel ay sa old testament. Then itong revelation ni John ay sa new testament. Ano po ang clear relation nang dalawa?

hi buddy Stacie! ..my answer may not be what you are looking for and some might say they are way off. but this is my take on this question.. when in doubt.. pray :)

Stacie Fil

04-24-2006, 10:33 PM

hi buddy Stacie! ..my answer may not be what you are looking for and some might say they are way off. but this is my take on this question.. when in doubt.. pray :)

Thanks bud !

WHazzuuuuuup? :yippee: :wave: :king:

Thanks sa advice. Kase naman ang pagkakaintindi ko eh...
Di ba sa Old Testament, ang hope na hinihintay eh si Jesus. Yun ang mga prophesy na natanggap ni Daniel kay Heavenly Papa. Kung papaano darating at ipadadala si Jesus. Daniel was during the time under Nebucadnezzur(mali ata spelling ko, pa correct na lang?) Babylonian captivity and(Persia think?) return.

Well, maganda at wala akong masabi sa picture diagram at ilang explanation niya. Totoo nga na may correlation.

Yung sinasabi niyan sa una na "Non apocalyptic". Meaning Jesus is to come as great mightyful leader or Kings of Kings and Lords of Lords ! (w/ back ground music, Halleluyah ...)

Then;

Yung second na "Apocalyptic" , which I sometimes say, "The other side of the coin". Syempre, what I meant was, pag sumablay ang plano or unang usapan, doon tayo sa reality, pero may back-up pa rin diyan para walang sablay.
Simpleng halimbawa, kita tayo or EB sa Tokyo. First gather muna sa Tokyo station.Kaso sablay, na late kaya or what ever at di nagkita... E di doon na lang sa area nang koen..tuloy ang ligaya nang EB. Di ba?
So, ito nga na second case ang natupad. "Way of the Cross..." Eh hindi nag kita eh! Di nagtagpo.Well, parang mali yata ako??? Nagsalubungan nga, nakita niya yung sign sa usapan(i.e.nakasuot ako nang...w/matching...color...e tc), kaso medyo naguluhan konte kung yon/siya na nga ang dapat kasabay na kasama sa EB, di nakilala. Nagdaplisan pa rin at nag kanya-kanya nang lakad.

Yung apocalyptic eh, yon ba yung coming from the clouds?

So, kung yung una nga ang natupad, becoming K of Kings. Hindi na kailangan yung other side of the coin or just in-case ika nga. Since Nariyan siya sa una to be leader and Lord of Lords, magagawa niya rightfully yung maraming bagay na naka kuyom sa kalooban niya at gusto sana niyang ibulalas lahat. Kaso,tsk,tsk,tsk medyo iba nga ang nangyari at di handa yung mga unang inimbita sa party. But the show must go on...! Pag dating nung ilang nahagilap sa labas, nang magka laman lang ang theater, para mag join sa concert eh ubos na halos ang time. Konte at minor gigs lang...bayang magiliw na. Walang choice kundi i-re-sked na lang ulit later.

So, tama ka nga na may co-relation sa Rev.(New Testament). Tuloy ang gigs, same invitation, re-engagement. At kagaya ni Daniel, yon din halos ang sinabi ni John the divine.Non apocalyptic and then later, apocalyptic. " Pag hindi kara, tiyak crus."

Thank you very much Alexb for the explanation..

Salamat din Doc for being around. "Do you know my name, if I saw you in heaven?" He,he,he,kanta lang yon, lang ibig sabihin. Sumagi lang sa isip ko,hi,hi,hi. Sino nga singer? (parang Trivia or Knowledge Power ah! Sige silip ako roon). Bye.

Pis po!:)

alexb

04-25-2006, 12:25 AM

Daniel 2

Nebuchadnezzar, the great king of Babylon, the mightiest empire on earth, dreamed an extraordinary dream, which he forgot. He called in the wise men of Babylon- magicians, astrologers, sorcerers, and Chaldeans- and required of them, in accordance with their professions, to make known the dream and its interpretation. Upon confessing their inability, he ordered them to be put to death for their deceptive claims. The prophet Daniel, however, when he heard of this decree and the monarch’s trouble, went in before the king and asked for time, promising to reveal the dream and its interpretation. As a result of prayer, the secret was revealed to Daniel in a night vision (v. 19). Giving all the glory to God of heaven, Daniel related the dream and gave the interpretation (vv. 28-45)

The head of gold in the image represented the kingdom of Babylon. Babylon is elsewhere called “the glory of kingdoms” (Isa. 13:19) and “the lady of kingdoms” (Isa. 47:5). Babylon, the capital city of this golden kingdom, was situated in the rich gardens of the East. It was laid out in the form of a perfect square, sixty miles in circumference, fifteen miles on each side. The walls surrounding the city were 350 feet high and 87 feet thick and contained a hundred gates of solid brass. The river Euphrates flowed beneath the walls and diagonally thru the city, which contained magnificent temples and palaces, and the famous hanging gardens were one of the wonders of the ancient world. The period of Babylonian supremacy lasted from 605 to 539 B.C.

The breast and arms of silver symbolized Medo-Persia, the silver kingdom. Cyrus, the Persian king, captured Babylon by stratagem in 539 B.C. On a night when the drunken city was given over to scenes of revelry described in Daniel 5, Cyrus diverted the waters of the Euphrates into artificial lakes, and his soldiers entered under the walls when the waters receded and the river became fordable. Medo-Persia held world supremacy from 539 to 331 B.C., when it was thrown by Alexander the Great. The thighs of brass represent Greece (331-168 B.C.). The Greeks were called brazen soldiers, brass playing a great part in their armor.

The legs of iron symbolize “the iron monarchy of Rome.” The supremacy of Rome, master of the world for centuries, lasted from 168 B.C. to A.D. 476. The mixture of iron and clay is symbolic of the division that finally came into the empire. Because of the invasions of the barbarians, Rome split up into ten kingdoms, of which the ten toes of the image were symbolic: the Anglo-Saxons, Franks, Alemanni, Lombards, Burgundians, Suevi, Visigoths, Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths, represented today by the modern nations of Europe.

“They shall not cleave one to another” (v. 43). Charlemagne, Charles V, Louis XIV, Napoleon, and Hitler all tried to create a great European empire but failed. Alliances and intermarriages have not succeeded in welding these kingdoms together, as witnessed by their continual national distrust, jealousies, wars, and frequent diplomatic bickerings and squabbles. After fifteen centuries, they still remain separate. Even the most recent effort to create a European Union will fail, according to the prophecy.

The stone that smote the image (vv. 44, 45) represents Christ coming kingdom. It will be a universal kingdom. The fulfilling prophecies and the signs on every hand loudly proclaim that great kingdom to be near.

alexb

04-26-2006, 09:44 PM

Daniel 7

In the first year of Belshazzar (555 B.C.), king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream and told the sum of the matters” (v. 1).

“Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one fron another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it” (vv. 1-4).

In the second chapter of Daniel, the rise and fall of earthly monarchies, culminating in the second coming of Christ, is outlined under the symbol of a great image, consisting of different metals. This, doubtless, would make a great impression upon the heathen King Nebuchadnezzar. To the prophet Daniel, however, earthly governments are portrayed as Heaven views them, under the symbol of wild and ferocious beasts. The last beast cruelly oppressed and persecuted the saints of the Most High.

Daniel saw the four beasts- lion, bear, leopard, and the terrible nondescript beast- arising out of the sea. Waters are symbolic of a thickly populated part of the earth (Rev. 17:15). The winds that strove upon the sea represent strife, war, and commotion (Jer. 25:31-33: 49:36, 37).

The four beasts seen by Daniel in the vision represent kingdoms. See verses 17, 23, 24: also Daniel 2:44. “King” and “kingdom” are thus here used interchangeably. In the midst of political strife and commotion and the force of arms, these kingdoms rose and fell.

The lion, symbolizing the first kingdom, corresponds to the head of gold in the image of Daniel 2. The lion is the king of beasts, just as gold is the chief of metals. The eagle’s wings on the back of the lion represent the rapidity with which Babylon, under Nebuchadnezzar, extended its conquest. It is remarkable that the period of Babylon’s greatness measures with the work and reign of one man, Nebuchadnezzar. Dying in 561 B.C., he had a reign about equal in length to that of queen Elizabeth of England (A.D. 1558-1603), about 45 years. Yet his days were the splendid days of Babylon. With the death of Nebuchadnezzar in 561 B.C., Babylon’s greatness passed away. The wings of the lion were plucked. Its days of aggression and rapid conquest were ended. A man’s heart was given to it, and it was made to stand upon its feet as a man. The kingdom lost its lionlike, vigorous character and became weak, vacillating, and worm-eaten with luxury, drunkenness, and vice. Twenty-three years later it was overthrown by the temperate, hardy warriors of Medo-Persia. Belshazzar, the last king of Babylon, and grandson of Nebuchadnezzar, failed to learn and apply the lessons that God had taught the great and haughty Nebuchadnezzar, and Babylon went down in the night of its sinful pleasure. “Weighed in the balance and found wanting”, was written by a divine hand on the walls of its dissolute palace (Daniel 5:27).

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/images/who_changed/afsg15-2.jpg

machobandido

04-27-2006, 11:04 PM

Stacie Fil

04-27-2006, 11:23 PM

The prophetic book of Daniel was written for our time. Its prophecies speak with increased meaning to this generation. The angel Gabriel specifically told Daniel to “seal up” these prophecies until the “time of the end.” Daniel 12:4. Kaya ang Daniel at Revelation ay para sa atin dahil nasa mga "huling araw" na tayo.

Its interesting to note na ang ginamit ng Babylon sa kanyang palace ay image ng lion. (Babylon- modern day Iraq)

http://www.aina.org/images/lion.gif

ito naman sa Assyria nakuha:

http://www.talariaenterpris es.com/images/3530.jpg

Huling araw nang ano? Papaano yung time na unang dumating si Jesus. Wala bang credit yon.
Bakit ba pinadala si Jesus? Anong silbi nang lahat nang sacripisyo nang mga Jews na prophet sa paghahanda nang kanyang pagdating noon? Hindi pala siya kailangan dahil ang Daniel prophesy(Old Testament) ay para ngayon at lampas sa kanya.

Namatay or I guess the right word was pinatay si Jesus, kaya kailangan niyang bumalik. Ibig bang sabihin na hindi para sa muli niyang pagdating ang prophesy ni John the divine(New Testament)? Kung hindi, saan? Sa una niyang pagdating,he,he,he,d i kaya napaka lelat naman niyon???

pc2005it

04-28-2006, 12:08 AM

huling araw siguro ng kasamaan at digmaan at kalokohan at huling araw siguro ng mga nagdudunung-dunungan sa mga Salita ng Diyos. tama ka machobandido sa pagsasabing nasa huling araw na tayo. di ba sa mga huling araw darating si Kristo? baka nga nariyan lang Sya sa tabi-tabi at tinitingnan kung sinu-sino ang puedeng pumunta sa langit. sa ibang topic na ipinost ni alexb, may reaction na baka si Rev. Moon ang katupuran ng pagbabalik ni Hesus. baka nga sya na nga...pero di naman pumapayag si alexb...baka may alam syang iba, merom ba?
may pagkatama rin ata si Stacie Fil dahil ang turo sa akin sa Christian school na pinasukan ko e ang buong Lumang tipan ay para sa pagdating ni Hesukristo at ang Bagong tipan naman ay para sa pagbabalik nya. Nakasaad sa libro ni Matthew na ang lahat ng propeta at lumang tipan ay natupad hanggang kay John at sa Roma naman, ang sinasabi e Kay Kristo ang katapusan ng lumang tipan.
bilib din ako sa interpretasyon ni alexb. sarili mo bang ideya yung mga nakasaad sa post mo o may pinagkukunan ka?

alexb

04-28-2006, 01:03 PM

i'm sorry kung ang dating sa inyo ay nagdudunong-dunungan, pls study the bible, yes marami sa atin ay nag-aral sa bible school pero di sapat yun. check out ang mga bible commentaries (ewan kung merong mabibili dito sa Japan, sa pinas marami sa PCBS) kung ito ay sariling interpretation ko lang. (meron sigurong on-line bible commentaries on Daniel and Revelation)

"time of the end", panahon ng katapusan...meaning matatapos na ang mundo. iba naman ang "end of time".

not necessarily na ang OT ay pang 1st advent lang ni Cristo, study the prophecies in Isaiah, meron ding para sa panahon natin. sa Daniel ay pinakita na ang storya ng mundo natin, from Babylon to 2nd coming. like i said Revelation 13 ay continuation ng Daniel 7. pls read muna ang Daniel 2,7 & Rev. 13.

pc2005it

04-28-2006, 09:01 PM

peacemaker

04-28-2006, 11:45 PM

huling araw siguro ng kasamaan at digmaan at kalokohan at huling araw siguro ng mga nagdudunung-dunungan sa mga Salita ng Diyos. tama ka machobandido sa pagsasabing nasa huling araw na tayo. di ba sa mga huling araw darating si Kristo? baka nga nariyan lang Sya sa tabi-tabi at tinitingnan kung sinu-sino ang puedeng pumunta sa langit. sa ibang topic na ipinost ni alexb, may reaction na baka si Rev. Moon ang katupuran ng pagbabalik ni Hesus. baka nga sya na nga...pero di naman pumapayag si alexb...baka may alam syang iba, merom ba?

If Rev. Moon has claimed that he is the messiah I think may proof siya. Wala man sigurong taong mag proclaim na siya ang messiah kung wala siyang maipakitang proof. If we study carefully what Rev. Moon has been doing for the world I could really feel that he is doing a messianic work. Let's balance things my dear friends... its true na may mga negative writings about Rev. Moon that has been done by those who are negative and don't like him but di natin alam how true yong mga sinusulat nila. But for sure they cannot ignore the universal peace project effort of Rev. Moon.

Anyway lets respect one's faith. Kung may naniniwala o di naniniwala na si Rev. Moon ang messiah sariling desisyon natin ito. Again let's respect one another. Basta akoy naniniwala na si Rev. Sun Myung Moon has been anointed by Jesus to continue his mission on earth... ang messiah sa ating panahon ngayon.

Salamat:)

Stacie Fil

04-29-2006, 01:54 AM

batu-bato sa langit, ang tamaan wag magalit. alexb, hindi para sa iyo ang nabanggit ko na nagdudunong-dunungan. para lang iyon sa mga makikitid ang kaisipan at mga mayayabang na bible skolar na kulang naman sa gawa(magaling lang sa salita). ang dasal ko lang e sana mas maraming magandang gawa keysa salita tayong mga Kristiyano. nasa pagkakaunawaan at pagmamahalan natin (kahit magkakaiba ang belief system) ang makakatulong sa pagpapatupad sa mga magagandang prophecy na nabanggit sa revelation at ibang parte ng bagong tipan. sori pala sa nasabi kong comments.

Maganda ang nabangit mong ito o dalangin mo pala. Marami sa ating mga kristiano ang medyo hirap sa bagay na iyan. Oo nga't sinabi ni Jesus na buhatin mo ang iyong krus at sumunod. Kaso dahil sa kanyang maagang kamatayan, na siya namang nabanggit rin,sa kung sakali na di siya tanggapin at suportahan nang tao, duon na lang ibinuhos ang focus nang salvation.

Sa totoo nga lang naman, syempre mas gusto yung mas madali at walang kahirap-hirap. Bakit nga naman magpapakahirap kung automatic namang babagsak ang langit sa iyong harapan na di na kailangan gawin or kumilos on your part.. Bakit pa tatrabahuhing naka tayo kung pwede namang naka upo? Kaso kung maiisip mo , buti pa yung ka tropa mo di mo maiwanan na magisa sa trobol. I offer mo pa kasama ang buhay mo. Samantala na yung binabanggit mong Amo at boss, madaling talikuran.Parang traydor ba na ikaw pa ang gustong magpa-pako sa krus. Patay siya, buhay ka,tsk,tsk,tsk, ang ligaya mo! Saan na napunta yung Gospel na Pag-ibig at konsensya na turo niya?

Yes we sacrificed many soldier or many life for nation or greater good. But from Jesus parable himself about the father sending the servants and last the son, he expects the son to be treated respectfully/acknowledge...not killed. Ang sigurado ko lang, di siya gumala sa paligid nang Galilee at Jordan para magturo na; siya ay dumating at hala sigi, ipako ninyo ako sa krus at ligtas na kayo... If that was the main course, yun sana ang content nang Lords Prayer na itinuro niya.

Hindi naman sa humihiwalay sa old secular explaination nang bible. Kaso lang may discrepancy eh. Kung clear at nasagot nang maliwanang ang tanong beyond any doubt, solve para sa akin ang usapan. Kaya nga nagtatanong, for clarification.

Tanong ko lamang sa mga iskolar, saserdote at escriba. Kung yun nga ang lubos na katuparan nang isang misyon at ikaw si Jesus, di ba dapat eh galak na galak ka, excited pa, dahil 100% sucessful ka? Hindi ka na kailangang i-accuse. Right away gagawa ka nang dahilan ma-pako sa krus. Ang ibig bang sabihin nang "groaning prayers ni Jesus,at sadyang lumuha pa nga nang dugo pa eh, acting lang ba yung hinagpis niya?( Dahan dahan ka oy, salamat ka wala siya sa tabi mo,he,he,he. Jok po)

Bakit hinintay pa lumaki siya? Noon pa sanang baby siya at sadyang papatayin na ni Herod, bakit kailangan pang itakas? Doon pa lang mission accomplish na. Bakit kailangan pang maghintay nang napakahabang panahon at magpadala nang maraming propheta para ihanda ang kanyang pag-dating. Bakit pinarami pa ang tao samantalang sa time ni Cain at Abel, kung naipadala siya at pinatay rin agad ni Cain, duon pa lang ligtas na ang lahat.

alexb

04-29-2006, 12:24 PM

batu-bato sa langit, ang tamaan wag magalit. alexb, hindi para sa iyo ang nabanggit ko na nagdudunong-dunungan. --pc2005it

No problem pc2005it :)

Bakit hinintay pa lumaki siya? Noon pa sanang baby siya at sadyang papatayin na ni Herod, bakit kailangan pang itakas? --stacie Fil

Good question, actually di lahat ni-reveal sa atin ng Diyos kahit sa Bible may binanggit na "mystery of iniquity", "mystery of Godliness", "mystery of Christ", "mystery of the faith", "mystery of the gospel", siguro gusto Niya na tanungin natin Siya ng harapan pag nandun na tayo sa kaharian Niya so lets all strive to be saved. (2Thess 2:7, 1Tim 3:9, 1Tim 3:16, Col 4:3, Eph 6:19)

"The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law. --Deut 29:29

alexb

04-29-2006, 01:38 PM

Naniniwala ako na kaya pinakita na kay Daniel ang hinaharap ay upang makapaghanda tayong lahat na nasa mga huling araw na ng mundo.

Daniel 7

The Bear

"And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh" (v. 5). Corresponding to the image in Daniel 2, the bear represents a marked deterioration in its relationship to the head of gold and the lion representing Babylon. Medo-Persia could not compare to the wealth and manificence of the great Babylon.

The bear symbolized Medo-Persia, which, under Cyrus, the nephew of Darius the Median, overthrew Babylon. "The Medes and Persians," says one writer, "are compared to a bear on account of their cruelty and thirst after blood, a bear being a most voracious and cruel animal. The cruelty of the Medes is shown in Isaiah 13:17, 18: "Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; their eye shall not spare children."

The bear raised itself up on one side. The kingdom was composed of two nationalities, and this represents the dominance of the one race over the other. The Medes, who were an ancient people, were the first dominant race; later the Persians, who were a modern tribe, became the dominant people. The same fact is represented by the two horns of the ram in Daniel 8.

The three ribs in the mouth of the bear are considered to represent the three principal powers that were conquered and oppressed by the Medo-Persian empire: Lydia, Babylon, and Egypt.

The bear fitly represents the character of Medo-Persia. It was said to the bear "Arise, devour much flesh" (v. 5). The boundaries of Medo-Persia were even greater than those of Babylon, espescially to the east and north. In Esther 1:1 we read that the Persian monarch "reigned from India even unto Ethiopia, over an hundred and seven and twenty provinces."

Finally, the Medo-Persians, becoming luxurious and effeminate, were overthrown by a vigorous power rising in the west: Greece, under Alexander the Great. The Medo-Persian empire lasted from 539 B.C. to 331 B.C., when Alexander overthrew the Persian power on the battlefield of Arbela. The last of the old line of Persian kings, Darius Codomannus, was treacherously slain after his flight from the gory scene of his defeat and undoing.

http://www.temcat.com/Remnant-Prophecy/images/circbear.jpg

Stacie Fil

04-29-2006, 08:50 PM

Bakit hinintay pa lumaki siya? Noon pa sanang baby siya at sadyang papatayin na ni Herod, bakit kailangan pang itakas? --stacie Fil

Good question, actually di lahat ni-reveal sa atin ng Diyos kahit sa Bible may binanggit na "mystery of iniquity", "mystery of Godliness", "mystery of Christ", "mystery of the faith", "mystery of the gospel", siguro gusto Niya na tanungin natin Siya ng harapan pag nandun na tayo sa kaharian Niya so lets all strive to be saved. (2Thess 2:7, 1Tim 3:9, 1Tim 3:16, Col 4:3, Eph 6:19)

"The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law. --Deut 29:29

Teka teka, ano itong gusto mong sabihin dito "lets all strive to be saved". Ibig mo bang sabihin na we have to do something? Work on some things towards salvations. Kai-explain mo lang na guni-guni or mystery lang sa akin yung mga nabanggit ko'ng katanungan. Dahil sabi mo nga na ligtas na tayo dahil napako na sa cross si Jesus. Ngayon:confused: we have to strive to be saved:confused: . (for what?)

Lalo mo akong ginugulo eh. Ano ba talaga kuya???:O

Baka naman kaya mo sinasabing mystery eh(dami nun), ikaw mismo ay di mo lang talaga alam ang tunay na ibig sabihin. Magsabi ka nga nang totoo? Ano ba tagala koooooooya!:(

"siguro gusto Niya na tanungin natin Siya ng harapan pag nandun na tayo sa kaharian Niya " Eh bakit kailangan pa nang question and answer portion, eh di ba yon ang misyon niya? Dumating na nga siya noon di ba?Ibig mo ba sabihin, may nakalimutan pa siya, at kailangan pa nating mag-tanong.(Yon ba ang dahilan kaya dapat bumalik...may di pa tapos).

Paano magtatanong yung maagang pinanganak at huling pinanganak. I mean yung di niya kasabay? ANG GULO LALO! Kung naroon tayo sa harap niya para magtanong...patay na tayo non. Kung lihis pala ang pananaw at paraan nang tayo ay nabuhay...huli na rin. Patay kana, ano pa magagawa mo. Ano pa maitutuwid?

Haaaay ulit! Ano ba talaga koooooooya, ang layo nang sinasabi mo eh. Lumulutang ka ata eh? Nasa lupa at ngayon ang problema. Sa paligid makikita ang reality nang existence nang evil or bad things.

As I understood and was sharing or trying to explain:
He came to resolve or substantialize a world of Love as Heavenly Father's original plan in the beginning, ang reason for making this world. God's creation...Gods kingdom ( and people on earth).Only if people then has recognize him,accepted him, all out supported him; A world of love and goodness and not a shade of evil has been restored. God has nothing to do will any evil. Or esle, hindi siya God, all powerful,all knowing, all Goodness. As Jesus prayed and taught us to follow..." Your Kingdom come, Your Will be done, on earth as it is in heaven".

Paki linaw nga po ulit yung paliwanang mo. Parang naguluhan lalo ako sa revelation na sinasabi mo. Sige po, inom muna ako nang tubig , hintay ko na lang po uli later ang paliwanag mo.

Bye ! :) Pis po.

alexb

04-30-2006, 01:07 AM

tnx...actually naguluhan din ako sayo. Una di ko sinabing guniguni mo lang yun. Ang point ko may mga tanong tayo na hindi masasagot dahil hindi binigay sa atin ng Diyos ang sagot (see Deut 29:29). Remember yung tanong mo regarding sa plan ni Herod na patayin si Jesus nung bata pa Siya?

Yung tatanungin Siya- sa langit ang ibig kong sabihin (I used "kaharian Niya") at hindi yung babalik tayo sa panahon ng lumang tipan. Lahat ng gusto nating malaman pwede ng tanungin dun.

Yes I said "strive to be saved", bakit? May mga nagtuturo kasi ng "once saved, always saved", di po totoo yan...kaya nga sinabi ni Jesus "ang magtiyaga hanggang wakas ay maliligtas" (Matt 10:22), ibig sabihin may effort din sa ating part. Yes napako Siya sa krus to save us, but salvation does not stop there. Ang Diyos ay nagligtas, nagliligtas at magliligtas. Nagligtas - sa krus yan, nagliligtas - everyday of our life ngayon His saving us, magliligtas - yan yung 2nd coming...tanong, sino sa atin ngayon dito ang nasa langit na? wala pa di ba, so lets "make our election sure" (2Pet 1:10)

"once saved, always saved" - ibig bang sabihin pag tinanggap ko si Cristo kahit di ako magbago ng ugali (i. e. murderer, adulterer, drug addict etc) ay tatanggapin ako sa langit? Kung di tayo magbabago its like saying God's tranforming power ay inutil.

Have you read Daniel 2,7 & Rev 13 and its commentary? Naguluhan din ako sayo eh...:)

pc2005it

04-30-2006, 08:24 PM

staciefil:
If Rev. Moon has claimed that he is the messiah I think may proof siya. Wala man sigurong taong mag proclaim na siya ang messiah kung wala siyang maipakitang proof. If we study carefully what Rev. Moon has been doing for the world I could really feel that he is doing a messianic work.

Konbinsido ka talaga na si Rev. Moon nga ang Messiah sa panahon natin ngayon. Bakit napakatagal naman ata ng pagtanggap ng tao sa kanya? At anu-ano naman ang mga proof na sinasabi mo na sya talaga ang Messiah.Puede mo bang isa-isahin (huwag links ha?) O baka naman disguise lang ang mga proof na yan. Anu-ano na ba ang nagawa nya? Parang wala naman akong nababalitaan tungkol sa kanya. Mas kilala pa ata si Dalai Lama kaysa kanya. At saka napakarami rin ang nagsasabi na sila ang pagbabalik ni Hesukristo. Sabi sa Biblia, mag-ingat daw sa impostor. Hindi ba isa sya sa mga ito tulad ng sinasabi sa ibang topic natin. May nagawa na ba si Rev. Moon para sa mga kapatid natin sa Middle East, Africa,South America, Pilipinas o sa mga kapus-palad at mga maysakit. Ano naman ang mga milagrong nagawa na nya? Kasamahan mo ba sila jhunex at peacemaker? Marunong ba silang magtagalog para naman mas maintindihan ko ang post nila sa ibang topic? Sori pero mahina ang pang-unawa ko sa Ingles. Salamat na lang at may nagtatagalog sa topic na ito. Nirerespeto ko ang paniniwala mo kay Rev. Moon pero bakit medyo mahina ata ang pamamahayag ng inyong paniniwala. Meron ba kayong itinatago na dapat naming malaman?
Sori alexb kung medyo bibigyan ko lang sila ng konting pansin sa paniniwala nilang si Rev Moon nga ang Messiah. Gusto ko lang makita ang points nila. Noong panahon kasi ni Hesukristo, e , konti lang ang nagbigay sa Kanya ng chance na patunayan at paniwalaan na Sya nga ang Messiah na padala ni God. Hanggang ngayon nga e hindi naniniwala ang mga Israelites na si Hesus ang dumating na Messiah. Baka maulit uli ang pangyayari, e baka malampasan ko ang pagkakataon na ito. Sa palagay ko, eto ang magandang topic na dapat pag-usapan. Medyo nagsasawa na rin kasi ako sa mga bangayan ng ibat ibang grupo ng denomination. Ilang daang taon na ang nagdaan pero wala pa ring masasabing kapayapaan at kaluwalhatian dito sa lupa na sana'y ginampanan ng Kristiyanismo. Pulos pataasan ng ere ang naririnig ko magmula ng namulat ako sa kristiyanong pamayanan. Bawat grupo e nagsasabi na sila ang tama at may nagsasabi rin na kung hindi ka aanib sa kanila e hindi ka maliligtas. Meron naman na ang pokus lang nila ay donasyon o tithes. Siguro kung ang yaman ng simbahan ay magagamit sa kapayapaan, maganda sana ang ating patutunguhan. Pero kung totoo nga ang sinasabi ni Stacie Fil, baka may pag-asa pa na mabago ang takbo at inog ng mundo. Mukha atang kinakampihan ko na sila ah. Hoy, hindi! Open lang ako sa mga bagong idea at mga intriga. Kailangan ko lang ng proof nyo...

adechan

04-30-2006, 09:00 PM

Yes I said "strive to be saved", bakit? May mga nagtuturo kasi ng "once saved, always saved", di po totoo yan...kaya nga sinabi ni Jesus "ang magtiyaga hanggang wakas ay maliligtas" (Matt 10:22), ibig sabihin may effort din sa ating part. Yes napako Siya sa krus to save us, but salvation does not stop there. Ang Diyos ay nagligtas, nagliligtas at magliligtas. Nagligtas - sa krus yan, nagliligtas - everyday of our life ngayon His saving us, magliligtas - yan yung 2nd coming...tanong, sino sa atin ngayon dito ang nasa langit na? wala pa di ba, so lets "make our election sure" (2Pet 1:10)

"once saved, always saved" - ibig bang sabihin pag tinanggap ko si Cristo kahit di ako magbago ng ugali (i. e. murderer, adulterer, drug addict etc) ay tatanggapin ako sa langit? Kung di tayo magbabago its like saying God's tranforming power ay inutil.

Have you read Daniel 2,7 & Rev 13 and its commentary? Naguluhan din ako sayo eh...:)

just want to share mine .... malabo din po sa akin ang OSAS (once saved always save)

because all who will enter thy Kingdom are the OVERCOMERS .... ibig sabihin those who able to let their dress washed in white until the end .... stain free .... walang bahid nang kasalanan .... and since we are all still here in this sinful world, the battle keeps rolling, at ang temptation ay palaging nakaamba lalo na sa mga certified "Anak nang Dios", kilalang kilala sila nang kalaban, kaya walang puwedeng mag judge

Stacie Fil

04-30-2006, 11:35 PM

Pleasant day pc2005it,

Thanks for being open minded person. I hope I can clearly answer all your questions most specially those "intriga na binabanggit mo" with reliable proofs.

Medyo nangi-ngiti lang ako nang konte , cause your putting words in my mouth. Thou I didn't answer many things directly, I believe your a smart person who read between lines.

In some points, you are correct to say, na mas popular si Dalai Lama. In many types of written, news and movie media.

You had said,"Nirerespeto ko ang paniniwala mo kay Rev. Moon pero bakit medyo mahina ata ang pamamahayag ng inyong paniniwala. Meron ba kayong itinatago na dapat naming malaman?"
Mukhang hindi mo naman ata ako pini-personal niyan ahh. Syempre may tinatago rin naman. Kahit naman public personalities eh, may private matters pa rin naman siguro to consider as individual. Ha,ha,ha,ha...Jok lang po.

I'll just quote a good friend who is also involved and respect Rev.Moon as I do. He said,"Since I learned the teaching of Rev.Moon, there had been big changes in my life. I am living a pure and honest life. I don't do drugs, nor even cigarette for that matter. I don't gamble nor drinks wine. I love my family, and above all, there's only one woman in my life...and that is my wife.

If Rev. Moon has claimed that he is the messiah I think may proof siya. Wala man sigurong taong mag proclaim na siya ang messiah kung wala siyang maipakitang proof. If we study carefully what Rev. Moon has been doing for the world I could really feel that he is doing a messianic work.
As you've said; Yes, probably He has proofs.
He is the person I knew who do things first, before revealling or talking about what he has done/made.

May nagawa na ba si Rev. Moon para sa mga kapatid natin sa Middle East, Africa,South America, Pilipinas o sa mga kapus-palad at mga maysakit. Ano naman ang mga milagrong nagawa na nya?
Sa aking nalalaman, "opo",marami pong nagawang kabutihang bagay si Rev Moon at kanyang mga aktibidad. Di po lamang sa ilang bansa na inyong nabaggit, higit pa po roon. Ang milagrong kanyang nagawa ay makikita sa halos lahat nang tao na sumusunod sa kanya. Isa na nga na halimbawa ulit ay yung nabanggit ko na tungkol sa isang kaibigan. Yun pong ilang sentences sa itaas na ginuhitan.

Alam ko na marami ka pang gustong kunsultahin personally. Mga katanungan na humihingi nang kasagutan. I can only suggest for the meantime a meeting between us. EB in others words if you won't mind, so we can talk and share ideas more. A simple friendly conversation if you'll agree. Please PM me that we can set a simple meeting between us.

Thanks ! :)

Stacie Fil

peacemaker

05-01-2006, 12:51 AM

staciefil:
If Rev. Moon has claimed that he is the messiah I think may proof siya. Wala man sigurong taong mag proclaim na siya ang messiah kung wala siyang maipakitang proof. If we study carefully what Rev. Moon has been doing for the world I could really feel that he is doing a messianic work.

Konbinsido ka talaga na si Rev. Moon nga ang Messiah sa panahon natin ngayon. Bakit napakatagal naman ata ng pagtanggap ng tao sa kanya? At anu-ano naman ang mga proof na sinasabi mo na sya talaga ang Messiah.Puede mo bang isa-isahin (huwag links ha?) O baka naman disguise lang ang mga proof na yan. Anu-ano na ba ang nagawa nya? Parang wala naman akong nababalitaan tungkol sa kanya. Mas kilala pa ata si Dalai Lama kaysa kanya. At saka napakarami rin ang nagsasabi na sila ang pagbabalik ni Hesukristo. Sabi sa Biblia, mag-ingat daw sa impostor. Hindi ba isa sya sa mga ito tulad ng sinasabi sa ibang topic natin. May nagawa na ba si Rev. Moon para sa mga kapatid natin sa Middle East, Africa,South America, Pilipinas o sa mga kapus-palad at mga maysakit. Ano naman ang mga milagrong nagawa na nya? Kasamahan mo ba sila jhunex at peacemaker?

Hi pc2005it:)

Maraming salamat sa reply mo! Bakit nga ba ako convinced na si Rev. Sun Myung Moon ang messiah? Personally I have experienced　a miracle in my life when i join the unification movement of Father Moon. Before I joined, palagi kong naitanong sa sarili ko kung bakit ba talagang di ko maiwasan ang magkasala inspite na palagi akong pumupunta sa church at nagbabasa ng bibliya. My mind wants to fully follow God's willl but my body is resisting and doing not the will of God. Siguro hindi lang ako ang naka experienced sa ganitong contradiction siguro lahat tayo.

With my desire to really change my life, Heavenly Father gave me the answer. He guided　me to the unification center and I learned a lot such that I could understand deeply the heart of Jesus who came 2000 years ago. The Divine Principle that Father Moon has taught and shared to humankind is a new revelation that will give us a total change in our life if we practice this in our daily life. The Divine Principle is not contradicting what the bible has written but it explains clearly the parables and symbols of the bible para itoy hindi na maging mahirap maintindihan.

Kaya dahil kinaklaro sa Divine Principle kung ano talaga ang real identity ni satan (lucifer), itoy nakakatulong sa akin kung paano makaiwas na makagawa ng kasalanan. If you know your enemy then you know how to resist temptation. Our enemy is satan (lucifer) who tempted adam and eve in the garden of eden.

Salamat.

pc2005it

05-01-2006, 10:05 AM

[quote=peacemaker]Hi pc2005it:)

Before I joined, palagi kong naitanong sa sarili ko kung bakit ba talagang di ko maiwasan ang magkasala inspite na palagi akong pumupunta sa church at nagbabasa ng bibliya.

And after you joined, ibig bang sabihin na naiiwasan mo ng di magkasala? Ibig bang sabihin na hindi na kailangan ang church at pagbabasa ng bibliya dahil di naman ito nakakatulong para maiwasan ang pagkakasala. Siguro pumupunta ka lang sa Church noon ng wala sa puso mo (o baka dating place lang ang church sa iyo noon) at ang pagbabasa mo ng bibliya ay baka hanggang basa lamang para lang maipakitang relihiyoso ka pati na rin ang pagkukunwaring pagpunta mo sa simbahan.

With my desire to really change my life, Heavenly Father gave me the answer. He guided　me to the unification center and I learned a lot such that I could understand deeply the heart of Jesus who came 2000 years ago.

Sigurado ka bang naintindihan mo talaga ang puso ni Hesus?

The Divine Principle that Father Moon has taught and shared to humankind is a new revelation that will give us a total change in our life if we practice this in our daily life.

Kung may Tagalog version siguro, baka puedeng pag-aralan o kaya naman e kung makapag bigay ka ng makatotohanang aplikasyon nito.

The Divine Principle is not contradicting what the bible has written but it explains clearly the parables and symbols of the bible para itoy hindi na maging mahirap maintindihan.

Pero bakit ilan sa mga kaforum natin e ayaw nila ng divine principle, mahirap sigurong intindihin. O baka naman ikaw at iba pang kasamahan nyo dito ang mahirap intindihin at umintindi.

Our enemy is satan (lucifer) who tempted adam and eve in the garden of eden.

Di ba sabi ni Hesus na mahalin mo ang kaaway mo? Kasama ba si satanas doon? Paano?

Salamat din.

pc2005it

05-01-2006, 10:33 AM

[quote=Stacie Fil]Pleasant day pc2005it,

Syempre may tinatago rin naman. Kahit naman public personalities eh, may private matters pa rin naman siguro to consider as individual. Ha,ha,ha,ha...Jok lang po.

Puede ho bang malaman kung ano ang inyong itinatago?

I'll just quote a good friend who is also involved and respect Rev.Moon as I do. He said,"Since I learned the teaching of Rev.Moon, there had been big changes in my life. I am living a pure and honest life. I don't do drugs, nor even cigarette for that matter. I don't gamble nor drinks wine. I love my family, and above all, there's only one woman in my life...and that is my wife.

Hanga ako sa friend mo. At ikaw, ganoon din ba? Marami rin ang tulad ng good friend mo kahit di nila natutunan ang teachings ni Rev Moon. Sa palagay ko, pangkalahatang pagtuturo ng relihiyon ang pagiging banal at pag-iwas sa mga bisyo at pangangaluya. E kung may napakagandang babae ang maghubad sa harapan ng friend mo, kaya kaya nyang di tigasan at pumatol?

If Rev. Moon has claimed that he is the messiah I think may proof siya. Wala man sigurong taong mag proclaim na siya ang messiah kung wala siyang maipakitang proof. If we study carefully what Rev. Moon has been doing for the world I could really feel that he is doing a messianic work.
As you've said; Yes, probably He has proofs.

Sori pero hindi sa akin galing yang quote sa itaas, kay peacemaker ata. Nagkamali lang ako at sa iyo ko naitukoy.

He is the person I knew who do things first, before revealling or talking about what he has done/made.

Tulad ng anong mga bagay? Makulit na ata ako?

Sa aking nalalaman, "opo",marami pong nagawang kabutihang bagay si Rev Moon at kanyang mga aktibidad. Di po lamang sa ilang bansa na inyong nabaggit, higit pa po roon. Ang milagrong kanyang nagawa ay makikita sa halos lahat nang tao na sumusunod sa kanya. Isa na nga na halimbawa ulit ay yung nabanggit ko na tungkol sa isang kaibigan. Yun pong ilang sentences sa itaas na ginuhitan.

Maliban sa pagbabago ng mga sumusunod sa kanya, anu-ano pa ang mga kabutihang nagawa na nya sa ibang bansa.

Alam ko na marami ka pang gustong kunsultahin personally. Mga katanungan na humihingi nang kasagutan. I can only suggest for the meantime a meeting between us. EB in others words if you won't mind, so we can talk and share ideas more. A simple friendly conversation if you'll agree. Please PM me that we can set a simple meeting between us.

Gusto ko ring makipagkita sa inyo pero mas gugustuhin ko na lang po muna ng ganitong pag-uusap dito sa forum.

Salamat din.

alexb

05-01-2006, 11:11 AM

Ikumpara natin at piliin kung alin ang galing sa Diyos...

"Everyone has to drink the holy wine in order to be reborn." (Sun Myung Moon, "Cutting Off Satan's Lineage, The Origin of the Most Evil World", Today's World, Feb. 1998, p.5)

John 3:3- Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

John 3:4- Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"

John 3:5- Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

pc2005it

05-01-2006, 11:36 AM

Stacie Fil

05-01-2006, 07:54 PM

@ pc2005it

Puede ho bang malaman kung ano ang inyong itinatago?
Ikaw naman eh, kaya nga itinatago eh,ha,ha,ha,jok lang ka ko yon.:bouncy: Actually alam mo ang ibig kong sabihin dahil si Jesus ang may sabi noon. Yong ginawang mabuti/kabutihan nang kaliwang kamay, kailangan pa raw bang ipagkalandakan O ipaalam sa kanan. Yon ang ibig kong sabihin

Hanga ako sa friend mo. At ikaw, ganoon din ba? Marami rin ang tulad ng good friend mo kahit di nila natutunan ang teachings ni Rev Moon. Sa palagay ko, pangkalahatang pagtuturo ng relihiyon ang pagiging banal at pag-iwas sa mga bisyo at pangangaluya. E kung may napakagandang babae ang maghubad sa harapan ng friend mo, kaya kaya nyang di tigasan at pumatol?
Tigasan,baka sakali, pero pumatol,Hhhm...malab o. At 100% sure ako diyan. Bakit? Kilala ko ang disiplina nang kaibigan ko sa ganoong mga bagay.Eh, maibalik ko ang katanungan, ikaw ba?

As you've said; Yes, probably He has proofs.
Sori pero hindi sa akin galing yang quote sa itaas, kay peacemaker ata. Nagkamali lang ako at sa iyo ko naitukoy.
Aah ganoon ba. OK lang.

He is the person I knew who do things first, before revealling or talking about what he has done/made.
Tulad ng anong mga bagay? Makulit na ata ako?
Hindi po naman. Naiintindihan ko ang mga tanong mo. Ganyan din ako sa mga bagay na bago at di ko pa lubos nakikita/naiintindihan. Kaya nga kung totoo pa rin yung sinabi mo na gusto mong maintindihan,lets meet. Gusto ko rin kasing malaman kung gaano katapat ang mga sinasabi mo.

Gusto ko ring makipagkita sa inyo pero mas gugustuhin ko na lang po muna ng ganitong pag-uusap dito sa forum.
Nauunawaan kita, we are all very busy people being here in japan. I just made the offer because of golden week,I just thought if ever na may spare time ka, we can chat, share and exchange ideas freely.Just PM if you change mind. Saan ka nga pala sa Saitama?

See you around. :)

pc2005it

05-01-2006, 08:25 PM

[quote=Stacie Fil]@ pc2005it

Yong ginawang mabuti/kabutihan nang kaliwang kamay, kailangan pa raw bang ipagkalandakan O ipaalam sa kanan. Yon ang ibig kong sabihin

Hindi ko ata makuha. Pakiderecho na lang po.

Tigasan,baka sakali, pero pumatol,Hhhm...malab o. At 100% sure ako diyan. Bakit? Kilala ko ang disiplina nang kaibigan ko sa ganoong mga bagay.Eh, maibalik ko ang katanungan, ikaw ba?

Kayo muna.

Kaya nga kung totoo pa rin yung sinabi mo na gusto mong maintindihan,lets meet. Gusto ko rin kasing malaman kung gaano katapat ang mga sinasabi mo.

Dito na lang siguro sa forum muna nyo ipaintindi ang gusto nyong i-proof. At baka meron din dyang tulad ko na open na sumusubaybay sa tema ng pag-uusap natin at ng iba mo pang kasamahan. At saka para din makasumbat si alexb at iba pa na magbibigay kulay sa discussion.

I just made the offer because of golden week,I just thought if ever na may spare time ka, we can chat, share and exchange ideas freely.

Sori pero golden week at holidays ang pinakabising mga araw ko. At mas maganda siguro kung ibuhos mo na lang ang oras mo sa asawa't anak sa mga araw na darating. Anyway, puede naman tayong mag-communicate dito sa forum.

Saan ka nga pala sa Saitama?

Sa liblib ng Honjo.

Stacie Fil

05-01-2006, 08:43 PM

@ pc2005it

Sori pero golden week at holidays ang pinakabising mga araw ko. At mas maganda siguro kung ibuhos mo na lang ang oras mo sa asawa't anak sa mga araw na darating. Anyway, puede naman tayong mag-communicate dito sa forum.

Aaah, busy ka pala? Sige, same to you.
Have a great time with your child and spouse.

:)

skipper

05-01-2006, 09:06 PM

hello mga ka timog, sali ako sa topic nyo. magandang thread to. ang lumang tipan ay nag sasaad ng mga pangyayari sa nakaraang panahon. partikular sa bansang israel. bakit??? kasi para ipakita ang plano ng panginoon. saan?? plano ng kaligtasan ng buong sanglibutan. sa lumang tipan natin nalaman ang pinag mulan ng bansang israel. inalagaan ng dios ama ang bansang ito, kahit may katigasan ang mga ulo nila at malimit na hindi sumusunod sa kanya. dahil sa bansang ito lalabas ang tagapag ligtas. ang panginoong Jesus.
kailangan lang nating unawain ang kasulatan. una dapat nating alamin kung kanino ipina tutungkol ang mga palatuntunan o utos ng dios. sa atin ba? o sa bansang israel. kaya nga may bago at lumang tipan. tayo sa panahong ito. na tinatawag na mga huling araw ay nasasakop ng utos ni Jesus, sa bagong tipan ay dapat na sya ang ating sundin.
yung tungkol sa panaginip ng hari ng babilonia, na ,si haring nabucodonosor. na isang malaking larawan. ay tama ang pag kakasunod-sunod na maghahari. na isinalarawan ni ka timog alex b. ito ay patungkol sa darating na kaharian na di masisira.ni matatalikod, at matatag mag pakailan man. ito yung kanyang Iglesia. ito yung inihuhula ng mga propeta na sina. isaias, sa Isa. 2:2, Dan.2:1-ff, joel.2:1-ff, at ang katuparan ay nasa bagong tipan sa aklat ng gawa. Gaw.2:-ff.
ito ay araw ng pentecostes. ang araw na natatag ang Iglesia ng Panginoong Jesus. na ipinangako nya sa kanyang mga alagad bago siya umakyat sa mga alapap, sa langit.
mahabang pag aaral at pag-unawa ang kailangan sa topic na ito. dahil ito ang foundation of church. ito lang ang maibabahagi ko. salamat mga katimog

peacemaker

05-01-2006, 10:00 PM

[quote=peacemaker]Hi pc2005it:)

Before I joined, palagi kong naitanong sa sarili ko kung bakit ba talagang di ko maiwasan ang magkasala inspite na palagi akong pumupunta sa church at nagbabasa ng bibliya.

And after you joined, ibig bang sabihin na naiiwasan mo ng di magkasala?

Hindi ko sinabing di na ako magkasala pero at least maka overcome na:)

Ibig bang sabihin na hindi na kailangan ang church at pagbabasa ng bibliya dahil di naman ito nakakatulong para maiwasan ang pagkakasala. Siguro pumupunta ka lang sa Church noon ng wala sa puso mo (o baka dating place lang ang church sa iyo noon) at ang pagbabasa mo ng bibliya ay baka hanggang basa lamang para lang maipakitang relihiyoso ka pati na rin ang pagkukunwaring pagpunta mo sa simbahan.

Hindi naman siguro pc2005it! Kahit nga yong mga nakatira sa "God's house" na nagbbiigay ng mesa tuwing linggo at puno ng talino sa bibliya na involve nga ng sexual problem. Maraming mga "banal" na halos cover to cover ang talino sa bibliya ngunit di parin maiwasan ang magkasala..

Sigurado ka bang naintindihan mo talaga ang puso ni Hesus?

Yes! Father Moon has known a lot about Jesus' suffering heart and we have learned this from him. Jesus anointed Father for a mission...that is to build God's Kingdom of peace on earth. This is not an easy mission but because Father Moon knew Jesus' heart thats why he accepted such great task.

The Divine Principle that Father Moon has taught and shared to humankind is a new revelation that will give us a total change in our life if we practice this in our daily life.

Kung may Tagalog version siguro, baka puedeng pag-aralan o kaya naman e kung makapag bigay ka ng makatotohanang aplikasyon nito.

This is my personal experience. The principle will help you a lot.

The Divine Principle is not contradicting what the bible has written but it explains clearly the parables and symbols of the bible para itoy hindi na maging mahirap maintindihan.

Pero bakit ilan sa mga kaforum natin e ayaw nila ng divine principle, mahirap sigurong intindihin. O baka naman ikaw at iba pang kasamahan nyo dito ang mahirap intindihin at umintindi.

Wala namang sapilitan:) Sa forum na ito ay sharing of ideas lamang. Dapat respitohin natin ang paniniwala at damdamin ng bawat isa upang palagi tayong peace:)

Di ba sabi ni Hesus na mahalin mo ang kaaway mo? Kasama ba si satanas doon? Paano?

Oo ah! kasama si Lucifer doon.　Alam mo bang Lucifer has surrendered already to God?

Salamat uli pc2005it. Sanay magkaroon na tayo ng kapayapaan sa mundo. Sa susunod uli...

Stacie Fil

05-01-2006, 10:46 PM

Alexb

Nariyan ka pa ba? Ha,ha,ha,sorry ha, naparami ang OT sa thread mo. Pasensya na! Bago tayo naguluhan at napalayo nang usapan, nasaan na nga pala tayo? Summary nga pls!:O

alexb

05-02-2006, 10:00 AM

Alexb

Nariyan ka pa ba? Ha,ha,ha,sorry ha, naparami ang OT sa thread mo. Pasensya na! Bago tayo naguluhan at napalayo nang usapan, nasaan na nga pala tayo? Summary nga pls!:O

ok lang, di naman kasi ako lagi nakakapag-online sa sobrang busy, saka maganda naman yung mga tanong

alexb

05-02-2006, 10:25 AM

[quote=alexb]Ikumpara natin at piliin kung alin ang galing sa Diyos...

"Everyone has to drink the holy wine in order to be reborn." (Sun Myung Moon, "Cutting Off Satan's Lineage, The Origin of the Most Evil World", Today's World, Feb. 1998, p.5)

Thank you alexb. Puede mo bang ibato sa akin yung buong text ng "Cutting Off Satan's Lineage..." ni Sun Myung Moon? May titingnan lang ako. Talaga bang sinabi ni Sun Myung Moon ito?

John 3:3- Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

John 3:4- Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"

Agree ako. Salamat sa pag-quote. Pero marami rin atang born-again ang di pa nakita ang Kingdom of God. Nakita mo na ba ang Kingdom of God? Anong hitsura ng Kaharian ng Diyos?
Sori pero curious lang ako. Makikita mo lang ba ito kapag patay na tayo at ikaw ay isang born-again? O puede rin bang makita ito habang tayo ay nabubuhay sa lupa?At saka paano na ang mga di born-again tulad ng mga Moslem, Buddhist, atbp. Kailangan ba nilang iwan ang kanilang relihiyon para maging born-again? Hindi kaya magdudulot ito ng malawakang di pag-uugnayan?
Kungmay kasagutan ka, please lang. Medyo malabo kasi sa akin.

John 3:5- Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is [b]born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God".

Wala akong question dito pero meron atang time na ginawang alak ni Hesus ang tubig. Anong ibig sabihin ng born of water and the Spirit. Eto ba yung practice ng baptismo? Sori ha sa mga tanong ko.

sorry wala akong "Today's World" magazine ng Moonies, I tried searching online pero wala, baka yung mga members nila dito meron.

try: http://www.newcovpub.com/unification/isrev.html

Kelan makikita ang kaharian? -Jesus is talking about the prerequisite ng mga papasok sa kaharian at yun ay ang bautismo. (may special cases gaya ng kasama ni Cristo nung nakapako Siya sa krus) Since andito pa tayo therefore sa future pa natin makikita yun.

Malawakang di pagkakaugnayan? -si Cristo ang may sabi na ang dala Niya ay tabak at di kapayapaan (Matt 10:34) ibig sabihin magkakaroon nga ng di pagkakaisa

Paano ang mga muslim at buddhist? -yes kailangan nilang mabautismuhan para makapasok sa kaharian ni Cristo.

Born of water and spirit - bautismo ng tubig at ng Banal na Espiritu :)

alexb

05-02-2006, 10:32 AM

Daniel 7

The Leopard

"After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it" (v. 6).

The leopard symbolized Greece, under the famous Macedonian ruler and world conqueror, Alexander the Great. A leading characteristic of the leopard is great swiftness. The four wings on the back of the beast indicate added speed. No other conqueror ever marched to greatness and world power with the rapidity of Alexander the Great. The rapid movement of the Grecian empire to the pinnacle of fame and power that it attained under Alexander is unparalleled in history. As a nineteenth-century student of Bible prophecy, H. Grattan Guinness put it: "The rapidity of Alexander's conquest in Asia was marvelous; he burst like a torrent on the expiring Persian empire, and all opposition is useless. The gigantic armies collected to oppose him melted like snow in the sunshine. The battle of Granicus, 334 B.C., Issus in the following year, and Arbela in 331 B.C., settled the fate of the Persian empire, and established the wide dominion of the Greeks."

Rugby's The history of Rome states, "In the tenth year after he had crossed the Hellespont, Alexander, having won his vast dominion, entered Babylon; and resting from his career in that oldest seat of earthly empire, he steadily surveyed the mass of various nations which owned his sovereignty,...In the bloom of youthful manhood, at the age of thirty-two, he paused from the feiry speed of his earlier course: and for the first time gave the nations an oppotunity of offering their homage before his throne. They came from all extremities of the earth, to propitiate his anger, to celebrate his greatness, or to solicit his protection."

Alexander overthrew the great Persian Empire in 331 B.C. when a little over twenty-three years of age. Some eight years later (323 B.C.) he died at Babylon of a fever caused by a drunken debauch.

"The beast had also four heads." It is said that as Alexander lay dying, he was aked to whom the kingdom should belong and replied, "The strongest." After Alexander's death, his thirty-six ambitious generals fought among themselves for the spoils of his empire. Alexander's relatives, including his queen, Roxana, a beautiful Bactrian princess, and his son (born after Alexander's death) were murdered within fifteen years after the great conqueror had passed away. Finally, in 301 B.C., twenty-two years after Alexander's death, the kingdom was parceled out among his four surviving great generals. Cassander had Macedonia and Greece, lying to the west; Lysimachus had the northern division of the empire, embracing Thrace and the northern part of Asia Minor; Seleucus had Syria, Babylon, and the rest of Alexander's dominions in the east; Ptolemy had the southern portions of the empire, including Egypt, Palestine, and Arabia.

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/images/who_changed/afsg15-4.jpg

pc2005it

05-02-2006, 02:47 PM

[quote=alexb][quote=pc2005it]

sorry wala akong "Today's World" magazine ng Moonies, I tried searching online pero wala, baka yung mga members nila dito meron.

try: http://www.newcovpub.com/unification/isrev.html

I tried this link pero puro quotes lang, gusto ko sana yung buong article. At saka, kung meron mang di maganda sa grupo, e bakit hanggang ngayon e nariyan pa rin sila at mukhang parami ng parami ata sila. Nakita ko sa news search na napakarami na ang ikinasal ni Moon. Baka darating ang panahon na yung mga darating na henerasyon mula sa ikinasal nya e dumami pa ng dumami. Di naman siguro nakakaalarma, mababait naman ata sila, tulad ng friend ni stacie fil at iba pa nilang kasamahan dito sa forum.

Kelan makikita ang kaharian? -Jesus is talking about the prerequisite ng mga papasok sa kaharian at yun ay ang bautismo. (may special cases gaya ng kasama ni Cristo nung nakapako Siya sa krus) Since andito pa tayo therefore sa future pa natin makikita yun.

Di ba sinabi rin ni Hesus sa dasal nya na"Your kingdom come, Your Will be done on earth as it is in heaven"? at saka "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be lost in heaven" . Ibig bang sabihin na magkakaroon lang ng heaven sa kalangitan pagkatapos maitayo ang heaven sa earth?

Malawakang di pagkakaugnayan? -si Cristo ang may sabi na ang dala Niya ay tabak at di kapayapaan (Matt 10:34) ibig sabihin magkakaroon nga ng di pagkakaisa

Naku, lalabas na rebolusyonaryo si Hesus nyan! Tama ata ang sabi ng isang radikal na pari na friend ko na si Hesus mismo ay ang kaunaunahang rebolusyanaryong Kristiyano. Pero siempre, hindi ako papayag dahil wala namang pinatay si Hesus. Baka hindi naman literal ang Matt 10:34 o kung literal man e may ibang ibig ipahiwatig depende sa situation. Pero sa akin, mas maganda kung magkakasundu-sundo ang mga relihiyon especially ang mga Kristiyano. Kahit pa ba sabihin natin na nakasulat sa Bibliya na magpapatayan ang mga tao, e kung magmamahalan naman tayo at mamahalin din natin ang ating mga kaaway e baka mas matutuwa pa ang Diyos. di ba? Anyway, basta ako ang number one sa akin ay mahalin ang Diyos, mahalin ang kapwa ko, at mahalin na rin ang mga kaaway ko. Eto ang alam kong sentro ng mensahe ni Hesus. Siempre, naghihintay din ako ng pagbabalik nya. Kaya nga siguro ako naiintriga sa mga claim ng ibang kaforum natin dito.

Paano ang mga muslim at buddhist? -yes kailangan nilang mabautismuhan para makapasok sa kaharian ni Cristo.

Para mo na rin sigurong sinabi na kapag hindi sila umanib sa Kristiyano e hindi sila maliligtas . Tulad din ng paniniwala ng mga INC. INC ka ba?

Born of water and spirit - bautismo ng tubig at ng Banal na Espiritu :)

Saan? Sino ba sa ngayon ang karapat-dapat na magbautismo kapalit ni Hesus? Puede ka ba? Puede rin ba ako. May kwalipikasyon ba?

Thank you alexb. At least meron din akong napulot sa mga sagot mo. Pero pasensya ka na at marami din uli akong katanungan sa mga isinagot mo.:)

pc2005it

05-02-2006, 03:04 PM

quote from peacemaker:

The Divine Principle that Father Moon has taught and shared to humankind is a new revelation that will give us a total change in our life if we practice this in our daily life.

Kung may Tagalog version siguro, baka puedeng pag-aralan o kaya naman e kung makapag bigay ka ng makatotohanang aplikasyon nito.

This is my personal experience. The principle will help you a lot.
Mali ata ang sagot mo. Nag-rerequest ako ng Tagalog version ng Prinsipyo nyo. Meron ka bang today's world na sinasabi ni kapatid na alexb?

Wala namang sapilitan:) Sa forum na ito ay sharing of ideas lamang. Dapat respitohin natin ang paniniwala at damdamin ng bawat isa upang palagi tayong peace:)

E kung totoo ngang si Moon ang Messiah, bakit di ka magpursige na hiyakatin kaming maniwala. O baka naman mahina lang convincing power ninyo dahil hindi naman siguro totoo ang mga sharing nyo. O baka naman mahina ang marketing strategy nyo.

Di ba sabi ni Hesus na mahalin mo ang kaaway mo? Kasama ba si satanas doon? Paano?

Oo ah! kasama si Lucifer doon.　Alam mo bang Lucifer has surrendered already to God?

Puede mo bang sabihin kung paano mahalin si Lucifer? Nakita mo na ba sya? si lucifer nag-surrender? Praning ka na ata. O sige sasakyan ko na lang...Kung nagsurrender sya, e bakit napakarami pa ring kasamaan?

alexb

05-03-2006, 10:47 PM

At saka, kung meron mang di maganda sa grupo, e bakit hanggang ngayon e nariyan pa rin sila at mukhang parami ng parami ata sila.
Di dahil mas marami ang isang bagay ay mas tama na ito. Sa ngayon 1/3 ng population ng mundo ay mga chinese, ibig bang sabihin nito na mas tama sila sa mga Pinoy? Hindi di ba? Saka si Cristo ang nagsabi- "Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds and burn them and to put the wheat in the barn." Matt 13:30 pinahihintulutan Niya ito hanggang sa pagdating ng araw ng paga-ani.

Di ba sinabi rin ni Hesus sa dasal nya na"Your kingdom come, Your Will be done on earth as it is in heaven"? at saka "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be lost in heaven" . Ibig bang sabihin na magkakaroon lang ng heaven sa kalangitan pagkatapos maitayo ang heaven sa earth? Sorry ha pero di ko na-gets ang point mo dito, medyo magkaiba ang content ng mga ginamit mong verses. :)

Naku, lalabas na rebolusyonaryo si Hesus nyan!... Pero siempre, hindi ako papayag dahil wala namang pinatay si Hesus. Baka hindi naman literal ang Matt 10:34 di naman ibig sabihin na rebolusyonaryo e nakapatay na agad, ayon sa merriam & webster- revolution: a sudden, radical or complete change. Si Cristo ang nagdala ng malaking pagbabago dito sa mundo natin at sa ating mga sarili mismo.

Para mo na rin sigurong sinabi na kapag hindi sila umanib sa Kristiyano e hindi sila maliligtas . Tulad din ng paniniwala ng mga INC. INC ka ba? Yan ang sinabi ni Cristo at di sa akin. At di ako INC.

Saan? Sino ba sa ngayon ang karapat-dapat na magbautismo kapalit ni Hesus? Puede ka ba? Puede rin ba ako. May kwalipikasyon ba? Qualification at kung sino ay di ko alam, pero ang alam ko ang bawat iglesia (religion) ay kusang nire-regulate kung sino ang pwedeng magbautismo. Siyempre baka kung sino na lang pati mental patient ay makapag-bautismo :)

peacemaker

05-03-2006, 11:49 PM

[quote=pc2005it] quote from peacemaker:

The Divine Principle that Father Moon has taught and shared to humankind is a new revelation that will give us a total change in our life if we practice this in our daily life.

Kung may Tagalog version siguro, baka puedeng pag-aralan o kaya naman e kung makapag bigay ka ng makatotohanang aplikasyon nito.

This is my personal experience. The principle will help you a lot.
Mali ata ang sagot mo. Nag-rerequest ako ng Tagalog version ng Prinsipyo nyo. Meron ka bang today's world na sinasabi ni kapatid na alexb?
-----------------------------------------------------------

A blessed day to you pc2005it:)

Sorry na wala pa tayong tagalog translation ng Divine Principle. May ipabasa ako sa iyo na isang mensahe ni Father Moon concerning the mission and responsiblity of the Christians for the second advent of Christ. Very informative siya. Just click the link below.Salamat

The Future of Christianity:http://www.unification.net/gww/gww-15.html (http://www.unification.net/gww/gww-15.html)

The New Future of Christianity: http://www.unification.net/gww/gww-17.html (http://www.unification.net/gww/gww-17.html)

goodsensei

05-04-2006, 12:24 AM

Hello,
Maaari po ba akong mag-join sa discussion?

goodsensei

05-04-2006, 12:27 AM

But I don't know where to start.
Any help?

peacemaker

05-04-2006, 07:46 AM

[U]

Di ba sabi ni Hesus na mahalin mo ang kaaway mo? Kasama ba si satanas doon? Paano?

[I]Oo ah! kasama si Lucifer doon.　Alam mo bang Lucifer has surrendered already to God?

O sige sasakyan ko na lang...Kung nagsurrender sya, e bakit napakarami pa ring kasamaan?

Kahit na si lucifer ay nag surrender na ay hindi pa rin matapos tapos ang kasamaan dahil marami pa siyang mga kaanib at kaalyado na mga evil spirits na naghahasik ng kasamaan sa mundo. Kung lahat sila ay susurender ay malamang na puro na kabutihan ang ating makikita sa mundo.

peacemaker

05-04-2006, 08:08 AM

E kung totoo ngang si Moon ang Messiah, bakit di ka magpursige na hiyakatin kaming maniwala. O baka naman mahina lang convincing power ninyo dahil hindi naman siguro totoo ang mga sharing nyo. O baka naman mahina ang marketing strategy ninyo

I advice you to study the Divine Principle and you will understand bakit si Father Moon ang nagiging messiah sa ating panahon ngayon. To believe or not to believe is your own portion of responsibility. Study his worldwide projects and activities that will lead to lasting peace. Goodluck my friend:)

pc2005it

05-04-2006, 04:39 PM

@ pc2005it

Aaah, busy ka pala? Sige, same to you.
Have a great time with your child and spouse.

:)

Salamat, palagi akong may great time sa asawa ko. Puede kong isakripisyo ang time sa trabaho pero ang time sa asawa, hindi. Sya ang pinaka-best para sa akin, wala lang rate per hour(biro lang).

pc2005it

05-04-2006, 04:53 PM

Di dahil mas marami ang isang bagay ay mas tama na ito. Sa ngayon 1/3 ng population ng mundo ay mga chinese, ibig bang sabihin nito na mas tama sila sa mga Pinoy? Hindi di ba? Saka si Cristo ang nagsabi- "Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds and burn them and to put the wheat in the barn." Matt 13:30 pinahihintulutan Niya ito hanggang sa pagdating ng araw ng paga-ani.

Pero mas maunlad ang mga chinese keysa mga pinoy, di ba?
Sino kaya ang mga weeds na susunugin? Yung mga born-again na konti lang ang kaalaman sa bibliya pero gumagawa ng kabutihan o yung mga born-again na hanggang bibliya lang utak at kulang sa gawa?

Sorry ha pero di ko na-gets ang point mo dito, medyo magkaiba ang content ng mga ginamit mong verses. :)

Di naman siguro magkaiba dahil parehong may heaven.

di naman ibig sabihin na rebolusyonaryo e nakapatay na agad, ayon sa merriam & webster- revolution: a sudden, radical or complete change. Si Cristo ang nagdala ng malaking pagbabago dito sa mundo natin at sa ating mga sarili mismo.

Eto ang pinakagusto kong nasabi mo. Agree ako dyan 100%. Salamat.

Yan ang sinabi ni Cristo at di sa akin. At di ako INC.

Ganoon ba? Galit ka ba sa mga INC?

Qualification at kung sino ay di ko alam, pero ang alam ko ang bawat iglesia (religion) ay kusang nire-regulate kung sino ang pwedeng magbautismo. Siyempre baka kung sino na lang pati mental patient ay makapag-bautismo :)

Di ba sa John the Baptist ay parang mental patient din noong kapanahunan nya. Kaya siguro napugutan sya ng ulo?

pc2005it

05-04-2006, 04:53 PM

pc2005it

05-04-2006, 04:53 PM

[quote=alexb]
Di dahil mas marami ang isang bagay ay mas tama na ito. Sa ngayon 1/3 ng population ng mundo ay mga chinese, ibig bang sabihin nito na mas tama sila sa mga Pinoy? Hindi di ba? Saka si Cristo ang nagsabi- "Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds and burn them and to put the wheat in the barn." Matt 13:30 pinahihintulutan Niya ito hanggang sa pagdating ng araw ng paga-ani.

Pero mas maunlad ang mga chinese keysa mga pinoy, di ba?
Sino kaya ang mga weeds na susunugin? Yung mga born-again na konti lang ang kaalaman sa bibliya pero gumagawa ng kabutihan o yung mga born-again na hanggang bibliya lang utak at kulang sa gawa?

Sorry ha pero di ko na-gets ang point mo dito, medyo magkaiba ang content ng mga ginamit mong verses. :)

Di naman siguro magkaiba dahil parehong may heaven.

di naman ibig sabihin na rebolusyonaryo e nakapatay na agad, ayon sa merriam & webster- revolution: a sudden, radical or complete change. Si Cristo ang nagdala ng malaking pagbabago dito sa mundo natin at sa ating mga sarili mismo.

Eto ang pinakagusto kong nasabi mo. Agree ako dyan 100%. Salamat.

Yan ang sinabi ni Cristo at di sa akin. At di ako INC.

Ganoon ba? Galit ka ba sa mga INC?

Qualification at kung sino ay di ko alam, pero ang alam ko ang bawat iglesia (religion) ay kusang nire-regulate kung sino ang pwedeng magbautismo. Siyempre baka kung sino na lang pati mental patient ay makapag-bautismo

Di ba sa John the Baptist ay parang mental patient din noong kapanahunan nya. Kaya siguro napugutan sya ng ulo? Sori sa mga John the baptist fans.

pc2005it

05-04-2006, 04:56 PM

I advice you to study the Divine Principle and you will understand bakit si Father Moon ang nagiging messiah sa ating panahon ngayon. To believe or not to believe is your own portion of responsibility. Study his worldwide projects and activities that will lead to lasting peace. Goodluck my friend:)

Saka na lang pag may Tagalog version na...Salamat na lang po sa offer mo...

pc2005it

05-04-2006, 04:58 PM

Kahit na si lucifer ay nag surrender na ay hindi pa rin matapos tapos ang kasamaan dahil marami pa siyang mga kaanib at kaalyado na mga evil spirits na naghahasik ng kasamaan sa mundo. Kung lahat sila ay susurender ay malamang na puro na kabutihan ang ating makikita sa mundo.

Nag-surender ka na rin ba? Ang akala ko e nasa tao rin nakasalalay ang pagpapatalsik sa kasamaan...

pc2005it

05-04-2006, 09:31 PM

Sori, na-triple post ko yung reply ko kay alexb.

pc2005it

05-04-2006, 09:49 PM

But I don't know where to start.
Any help?

kung saan mo feel, doon ka magsimula.
ang cute ng avatar mo, saan mo nakuha yan? ginawa mo ba?pakigawa naman ako...sori.

goodsensei

05-04-2006, 10:18 PM

Thank you, pc2005it.
At least somebody replied to welcome me in the discussion.
Salamat ho uli.

alexb

05-04-2006, 11:06 PM

Pero mas maunlad ang mga chinese keysa mga pinoy, di ba?
Sino kaya ang mga weeds na susunugin? Yung mga born-again na konti lang ang kaalaman sa bibliya pero gumagawa ng kabutihan o yung mga born-again na hanggang bibliya lang utak at kulang sa gawa?

Di naman siguro magkaiba dahil parehong may heaven.

Galit ka ba sa mga INC?

Di ba sa John the Baptist ay parang mental patient din noong kapanahunan nya. Kaya siguro napugutan sya ng ulo? Sori sa mga John the baptist fans

ang point mo kasi nung una, pag mas marami ay baka tama, now maunlad? medyo inconsistent ka ata. anyway, kung maunlad ba e tama na?
weeds- sa bible yan ang kay satanas at yung wheat ay sa Diyos

if you will read the immediate and larger context of both verses makikita mong magkaiba. :)

di ako galit sa INC (malayo ang konek sa topic) :)

wala sa bible na sinabi na si John ay parang mental patient. :)

alexb

05-05-2006, 12:23 AM

Daniel 7

Terrible Beast

The great and terrible beast symbolizes, like the legs of iron in the image of Daniel 2, "the iron monarchy of Rome." Rome (pagan) was terrible and exceeding strong, and trod down and broke in pieces other kingdoms. The historian Gibbon said. "The empire of the Romans filled the world. And when that empire fell into the hands of a single person, the world became a safe and dreary prison for his enemies. To resist was fatal; and it was impossible to fly." The ten horns corresponds to the ten toes of the image in Daniel 2, and represent the divisions, or kingdoms, into which Rome finally divided.

The little horn, arising amont the ten, symbolizes the Papal Rome. (Pagan Rome - headed by Emperors, Papal Rome - headed by Popes) " ...even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows." - Daniel 7:20 ("more stout" means it is different from the other ten, since the Papacy has two powers, both religious and political)

The mouth speaking great things indicates the blasphemous claims by this power to the titles and prerogatives of God. The Papacy claims infallibility, power to forgive sins, etc.

The three horns, or powers, plucked up were the Heruli, Vandals, and the Ostrogoths because of their belief in Arianism. "... the Catholic emperors of the eastern empire found ways to help the pope by eliminating three of the Arian tribes. The Catholic emperor Zeno (474-491) arranged a treaty with the Ostrogoths in 487 which resulted in the eradication of the kingdom of the Arian Heurls in 493. And the Catholic emperor Justinian (527-565) exterminated the Arian Vandals in 534 and significantly broke the power of the Arian Ostrogoths in 538. thus were Daniels three horns — the Heuels, the Vandals, and the Osttogoths — plucked up by the roots." (C. Mervyn Maxwell, God Cares, vol. 1, Daniel, p. 129)

It had supremacy for a time, times, and the dividing of time. Compare Revelation 12:14. A time in prophecy is the same as a year. See Daniel 11:13...

Time ---------------- 1 year
Times --------------- 2 years
Dividing of Times --- 1/2 year
____________________ _
3 1/2 years

The prophetic year contains 12 months of 30 days each; that is 360 days. Three and a half years would contain (360 X 3 1/2) 1260 days. Compare revelation 13:5, 12:6. A day in prophecy, however stands for a year (Eze 4:6; Num 14:34). The period of 1260 days therefore represents 1260 years. Reckoning from A.D 538, the 1260 years extend to A.D. 1798, when Pope Pius the VI was taken prisoner by Napoleon's general, Berthier, and the Papacy for a while ceased to exist.

http://www.bibleexplained.c om/prophets/daniel/da07notes.htm

http://www.godsplan-today.com/0_Images/Dan7Beasts.jpg

pc2005it

05-05-2006, 01:13 AM

[quote=alexb]
ang point mo kasi nung una, pag mas marami ay baka tama, now maunlad? medyo inconsistent ka ata. anyway, kung maunlad ba e tama na?

Hindi naman siguro ako inconsistent, malawak lang ang kaisipan.
Tama naman siguro, maunlad e. Ang hirap kasi sa ibang mga Kristiyano e makitid ang pag-iisip. Kung wala sa bibliya, di paniniwalaan at gagawin. Sa bibliya merong nakalagay na mahalin mo ang kapwa mo, di naman ginagawa. Mahalin mo kaaway mo(kasama na si Lucifer na sabi ni peacemaker), di naman ginagawa. Siempre kung di ginagawa e para na ring di pinaniniwalaan. Ano ba talaga? :confused:

weeds- sa bible yan ang kay satanas at yung wheat ay sa Diyos

Ano pala ang pagkakaiba ng weeds at wheat sa panahon natin ngayon. Sigurado ka bang ikaw ay para sa Diyos at no chance na si satanas na impluwensiyahan ka?:)

if you will read the immediate and larger context of both verses makikita mong magkaiba. :)
kunsabagay nga. pero hindi ba desire ni Hesus na maitayo ang Kaharian ng Diyos sa lupa? Pakilinaw naman kung alam mo kung papaano?

di ako galit sa INC (malayo ang konek sa topic) :) a
ay salamat...

wala sa bible na sinabi na si John ay parang mental patient. :)
ganoon ba...kasi iniwan nya ang mga kamag-anak nya for 30years at pumunta sya sa wilderness eating locusts and honey. pero ang alam ko walang masyadong honey sa Israel. at para matustusan ang pagkain nya e baka nag-house to house sya na parang pulubi para humingi ng pagkain. anyway, praktikal lang naman ako sa situation. at ang suot-suot ata nya ng panahon na iyon e di tugma sa kapanahunan nya (ala kapanahunan ni Elias). alam mo bang nagkontrahan sila ni Hesus?

alexb

05-07-2006, 08:31 AM

Tama naman siguro, maunlad e.
Di dahil maunlad e tama na. ikumpara natin ang mga politiko sa pinas at sa atin, di ba mas maunlad sila kesa sa atin dito sa japan na nagpapakahirap kumayod, mas tama ba sila kung totoong ninanakaw nila ang pera ng bayan kaya umunlad?

Ang hirap kasi sa ibang mga Kristiyano e makitid ang pag-iisip. Kung wala sa bibliya, di paniniwalaan at gagawin. Sa bibliya merong nakalagay na mahalin mo ang kapwa mo, di naman ginagawa.
wag mo nang problemahin yun, mayroong hukom na magbibigay ng tamang kahatulan. di tayo ang hukom.

Ano pala ang pagkakaiba ng weeds at wheat sa panahon natin ngayon.
analogy ito ni Cristo na ang ibig sabihin ay sa araw ng paghahatol Niya ay ihihiwalay Niya ang tunay na sa Kaniya sa hindi. kung sa pinas ito, itoy damo at palay...kapag maliit pa ay di mo makilala kung alin ang palay at alin ang damo, kapag malaki na saka pa lamang makikilala

Sigurado ka bang ikaw ay para sa Diyos at no chance na si satanas na impluwensiyahan ka? ang trabaho ni Satanas ay manukso, nasa sa atin na yun kung papatukso tayo.

pero hindi ba desire ni Hesus na maitayo ang Kaharian ng Diyos sa lupa? nabawi na ni Jesus ang mundo kay satanas mula ng magwagi Siya sa krus ng kalbaryo, Kaniya na ito, babalik Siya upang i-claim ito.

pc2005it

05-07-2006, 08:38 PM

... mas tama ba sila kung totoong ninanakaw nila ang pera ng bayan kaya umunlad?

Karmahin sana sila. Pero hindi naman lahat siguro sa kanila ay mali.

...mayroong hukom na magbibigay ng tamang kahatulan. di tayo ang hukom.

Hatulan na lang siguro natin ang ating sarili gamit ang konsensiya. Alam mo bang hatulan kung ang ugali at ginagawa mo ay mabuti o masama? At alam mo rin bang hatulan kung ano ang tamang pananampalataya o ang tamang relihiyon? At anong relihiyon o grupo ang para sa Diyos at para kay satanas?

analogy ito ni Cristo na ang ibig sabihin ay sa araw ng paghahatol Niya ay ihihiwalay Niya ang tunay na sa Kaniya sa hindi.

Ganoon ba. Ikaw, alam mo bang ihiwalay ang kasamaan at kabutihan mo? Share naman.

ang trabaho ni Satanas ay manukso, nasa sa atin na yun kung papatukso tayo.

Tumpak ka dyan...pero alam mo ba kung paano mapaglabanan ang mga tukso ni satanas tulad ng alak, pambababae, panlalalaki, sugal at iba pang makamundong pagnanasa?

nabawi na ni Jesus ang mundo kay satanas mula ng magwagi Siya sa krus ng kalbaryo, Kaniya na ito, babalik Siya upang i-claim ito.

Tama pala si peacemaker na sumurender na si lucifer/satanas...Sana bumalik na agad si Hesus. May alam ka ba kung kailan?

Peace

alexb

05-09-2006, 10:45 AM

Karmahin sana sila. Pero hindi naman lahat siguro sa kanila ay mali. so di lahat ng magnanakaw pala ay mali

Hatulan na lang siguro natin ang ating sarili gamit ang konsensiya. Alam mo bang hatulan kung ang ugali at ginagawa mo ay mabuti o masama? At alam mo rin bang hatulan kung ano ang tamang pananampalataya o ang tamang relihiyon? At anong relihiyon o grupo ang para sa Diyos at para kay satanas? si Cristo ang hahatol (Rom 8:34)

Ganoon ba. Ikaw, alam mo bang ihiwalay ang kasamaan at kabutihan mo? Share naman. nasusulat si Cristo ang maghihiwalay

Tumpak ka dyan...pero alam mo ba kung paano mapaglabanan ang mga tukso ni satanas tulad ng alak, pambababae, panlalalaki, sugal at iba pang makamundong pagnanasa? si Cristo ang kailangan natin upang magwagi

Tama pala si peacemaker na sumurender na si lucifer/satanas...Sana bumalik na agad si Hesus. May alam ka ba kung kailan? kahit sa dictionary iba ang meaning ng surrender sa nabawi

alexb

05-09-2006, 11:03 AM

Revelation 11

Dito na-prophecy ang French revolution

Background
By 1789 King Louis XVI and his royalist party were losing power rapidly. A national assembly was proclaimed in June. In July the Bastille, which had held political prisoners, was taken. In October, martial law was decreed, and in November church (Catholic) property was nationalized and sold to help a failing economy. Thus the revolt was against religious and civil traditional authority. Both had suppressed the people. Earlier events such as the St. Bartholomew Massacre had been tools in the hands of the state to fulfill the ends of the dominant church. This time the throne as well as the altar were objects of the developing disbelief and unrest.

On October 5, 1793, the law for a new calendar was passed replacing the seven-day week with a ten-day "decade." Also the months were renamed and days allocated differently. This meant that there was officially no longer a weekly day of worship. This was the major event that initiated the "dechristinization."
Many of the clergy, both Catholic and Protestant, resigned their posts to join the revolution. With excitement high, the local and regional governments proclaimed grand celebrations at the Notre Dame cathedral. That was November 10, 1793 (20th of Brumaire, by the new calendar). A statue of Liberty would replace the image of the "Blessed Virgin." The Mayor of Paris called this ceremony the "Festival of Liberty and Reason."

"The ceremony of the 20th Brumaire was very important. The insignia of the Catholic religion in the Church of Notre-Dame had been covered up, and a mound had been heaped up, on which stood a Greek temple, with an inscription — 'To Philosophy' — and with four busts of philosophers. . . . The 'Torch of Truth' flamed upon an altar. Young girls defiled [marched] in procession; they were clad in white, with tricolour shashes, wore wreaths of flowers and carried torches. Then there emerged from the temple a beautiful woman, dressed in a mantle of blue and wearing the red cap. As the personification of liberty she received the homage of the Republicans, who, stretching their hands toward her, sang a hymn. . . .

"'Come, holy Liberty, inhabit this temple,
Become the goddess of the French people.'

"The whole scene was enacted artistically and tastefully by actresses from the Opera.
"Then the Department and the Commune assembled at the bar of the Convention, where Chaumette declared, in their name, that the people wanted no other priests or gods than those which nature offers us: 'We, their magistrates, have gathered from their lips this expression of their wish, and we bring it to you from the Temple of Reason' and he asked that henceforth Notre-Dame should be known as the Temple of Reason. A decree to this effect was immediately passed. . . .
"The Worship of Reason was nearly everywhere deistic and not materialistic or atheistic." (Aulard, Ibid, pp. 106, 107, 111) In Deism, nature is worshiped. It was atheistic in the sense of replacing the creator of nature with nature itself as the object of worship. The deism developed from the atheism.

"A dechristianization of France started in 1793 . . . first with the Cult of Reason, then with that of the Supreme Being. [The foremost aim was] To defend the country and the Revolution . . . against the priests, who showed themselves hostile. It seemed as if the priesthood was indestructible except by the overthrow of its altars. That work was carried out by revolutionary patriotism, and supported by a movement of free-thought, which had long been bred through the intolerance of the State religion, while philosophers like Voltaire stimulated and disseminated it. . . . Supposing the success of the National Defense had been delayed, and a liberating victory . . . [had been delayed, too, allowing time for the masses to become more agitated] it is a question whether the protracted Terror, considered as a dechristianizing factor, would not have dealt the death-blow to the Catholic religion in particular, nay, to Christianity in general. . . .
"When I speak of Christianity, I refer chiefly to catholicism, but the two French Protestant Churches, the Lutheran and the Calvinistic, were also affected by the anti-religious movement of 1793. . . ." Preface (p. 13) of Christianity and the French Revolution. A. A. Aulard, translated by Lady Frazer, 1927. Ernest Benn Limited, London.

Actually the new belief system began with the Cult of Reason as noted by Aulard. Quickly actions were taken to remove the old faith, Christianity. The term "dechristianization" may well have been prompted by the actions centuries earlier when the Roman church and government had effectively "christianized" them. The French ancestors, called Franks, were the first to embrace the new religion under King Clovis. That was 30 years before the 1260 year period began.

Ang dalawang saksi ay pinatay - ang saksi ay ang Bible (old & new testament)- namatay ng 3 1/2 days

Rev 11:7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies {will lie} in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Rev 11:9 Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations {will} look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb.

Rev 11:10 And those who dwell on the earth {will} rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

Rev 11:11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.

Natupad ito, ipinagbawal ang Bible sa France ng 3 1/2 years (3 1/2 days)

http://academic.brooklyn.cu ny.edu/history/virtual/portrait/louis16-execution.jpg

alexb

05-11-2006, 02:01 PM

Revelation 13

The First Beast

Identifying the Little Horn of Daniel 7 and the Beast of Revelation 13

1. Its Geographic Location
2. The Time of its Rise to Power
3. The Circumstances of its Rise
4. Its Comparison with Other Kingdoms
5. Its Inherited Characteristics
6. Its Inherited Authority
7. Its Claims
8. Its Persecuting Activity
9. Its Duration
10. Its Apparent Death
11. Its Healing
12. Its World-Wide Popularity

Since the beast of Revelation 13 (little horn of Daniel 7) plays such a significant role in Bible prophecy, it is important to have a solid identification of this power. The purpose of this information is not to blame individuals who may unwittingly be associated with this entity. But God, in His love for people, wants us to beware of Satan's deceptions that would lead us to destruction. So, with no intention of defamation, we direct your attention to the Biblical data identifying this power. To the Bible's specifications we simply add historical information.

"In all ages of the Church, from the days of Gregory the Great down to the present, men have pointed to the Papacy as the fulfillment of the prophecy. That interpretation is set forth in the Homilies of the Church of England and by all the Reformed Churches. The interpretation, however, has been ignored or rejected by critics, for reasons which need not be specified. It can, however, stand all the tests of criticism." -Dr. Charles H. H. Wright, Daniel and His Prophecies, p. 168. London: 1906.

Let us examine each of the identifying marks to confirm that the union of religious and civil power embodied in the Papal office is indeed the very entity predicted in these Scripture passages.

1. Its Geographic Location

"Among them" Daniel 7:8
In order to rise among the other horns, the little horn would have to arise where the ten nations existed which had taken over the Western Roman Empire. The papacy did indeed arise in the very city of Rome itself.

2. The Time of its Rise to Power

"After them" Daniel 7:24
Since the Roman Empire is considered by historians to have fully given over its authority to those ten nations by the year A.D. 476, we must look for the little horn to receive its power sometime after 476. It did, as we will see later.

3. The Circumstances of its Rise

"He shall subdue three kings" Daniel 7:8, 20, 24
The Heruli, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths would not recognize the Bishop of Rome as the head of the church, and were deposed.

4. Its Comparison with the Other Kingdoms

"Diverse from the first" Daniel 7:24
The papacy was a different kind of power than the other kingdoms. While they possessed strictly secular authority, the pope claimed religious as well as civil power. The eyes, mouth and stoutness of this horn reveal its superiority over the other kingdoms.

5. Its Inherited Characteristics

"Like unto a leopard, . . . a bear, and . . . a lion" Daniel 7:12; Revelation 13:2
The vital aspects of the kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece are preserved in the papacy. The priesthood and sacramental ritual of Catholicism were taken directly from the Babylonian cults. Also from ancient Babylon came the worship of a virgin mother-goddess. The Persian sun-worship religion, Mithraism, has been preserved in amazingly precise detail in the holidays and religious customs of the Catholic people. Doctrines and philosophies of Greek Gnosticism taught by the church fathers and adopted by early Catholic councils are still alive today. The Catholic Cardinal Newman gives an extended list of things "of pagan origin" which the papacy brought into the church "in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen:" "the use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense . . . candles . . . holy water . . . holydays . . . processions . . . sacerdotal vestments . . . the ring in marriage . . . images . . . the ecclesiastical chant . . ." -J. H. Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, 1920 ed., p. 373.

6. Its Inherited Authority

"The dragon gave him . . . his seat" Revelation 13:2
Revelation 2:13 also mentions Satan's seat. Before the rise of the papacy, Satan used pagan Rome as his persecuting agent against Christianity. This was "he who now letteth . . . until he be taken out of the way." 2 Thess. 2:6, 7. On the vacated seat of the Roman Empire arose the papacy. Said one historian, "The Pope . . . is Caesar's successor." -Adolf Harnack, What is Christianity? (New York: G. P. Putnam's Sons, 1903), p. 270.

7. Its Claims

"A MOUTH SPEAKING GREAT THINGS AND BLASPHEMIES" Daniel 7:8, 11, 20, 25; 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 13:1, 5, 6
The Bible gives two definitions of blasphemy: (1) John 10:33 -- When a man makes himself God; (2) Luke 5:20, 21 -- Claiming the power which belongs only to God to forgive sins. The papacy makes both of these claims. Notice the following quotations:
"Thou art another God on earth." -Christopher Marcellus' Oration in the Fifth Lateran Council, 4th session.
"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty." -Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter "The Reunion of Christendom."
"All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ . . . all the same names are applied to the Pope." -Robert Bellarmine, Disputationes de Controversiis, Tom. 2.
"Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions." -Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca , "Papa", art. 2.
The very title, pope, means "papa," or "father." It is a title which in religious usage belongs only to God. "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Matthew 23:9.
"They have assumed infallibility, which belongs only to God. They profess to forgive sins, which belongs only to God. They profess to open and shut heaven, which belongs only to God. They profess to be higher than all the kings of the earth, which belongs only to God. And they go beyond God in pretending to loose whole nations from their oath of allegience to their kings, when such kings do not please them. And they go against God, when they give indulgences for sin . This is the worst of all blasphemies." - Adam Clarke Commentary on Daniel 7:25.

8. Its Persecuting Activity

"Shall wear out the saints of the most High" Daniel 7:21, 25; Revelation 13:7
"For professing faith contrary to the teachings of the Church of Rome, history records the martyrdom of more than one hundred million people. A million Waldenses and Albigenses perished during a crusade proclaimed by Pope Innocent III in 1208; beginning from the establishment of the Jesuits in 1540 to 1580, nine hundred thousand were destroyed; one hundred and fifty thousand perished by the Inquisition in 30 years; within the space of thirty-eight years after the edict of Charles V against Protestants, fifty thousand persons were hanged, beheaded, or burned alive for heresy; eighteen thousand more perished during the administration of the Duke of Alva in five and a half years." -Brief Bible Readings for Busy People, No. 8.
"That the Church of Rome has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind, will be questioned by no Protestant who has a competent knowledge of history . . . . It is impossible to form a complete conception of the multitude of her victims, and it is quite certain that no powers of imagination can adequately realise their sufferings." - W. E. H. Lecky, History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of Rationalism in Europe (1955 ed.), Vol. 2, p. 40.

9. Its Duration

"A time, and times, and half a time" Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7; Revelation 12:14
"Forty and two months" Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5
"A thousand two hundred and threescore days" Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6
These three expressions all refer to the period of time during which the papacy was to exercise its supremacy.
"A time and times and the dividing of time."
A "time" represents a year (Daniel 4:16; 11:13, margin). One prophetic year equals 360 prophetic days. In Aramaic (the original language used in Daniel 7:25) the word "times" means "two times." So let's add it up.

1 time = 360 prophetic days
2 times = 720 prophetic days
half time = 180 prophetic days
TOTAL = 1260 PROPHETIC DAYS

"Forty and two months"
A prophetic month consists of 30 prophetic days. So let's multiply it.
30 days per month
x 42 months
TOTAL = 1260 PROPHETIC DAYS

With seven references in Scripture to this time period, one thing is clear. The papacy was to be in power for exactly 1260 prophetic days. The scale for interpreting prophetic time periods in the Bible is "each day for a year." Two Biblical instances when this scale was used are Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6. In Daniel 9:24-27 this scale was used to predict the very year of Christ's crucifixion. By adding that information to the details given in the first part of that same prophecy (Daniel 8:14), we figured the starting point of the great Day of Atonement foreshadowed in the ancient ceremonial system. That same scale applies to the prophecy at hand:

1 prophetic day = 1 literal year
1260 prophetic days = 1260 LITERAL YEARS

History confirms the fact that the papacy held supremacy for exactly 1260 years. In A.D. 533, emperor Justinian issued a decree recognizing the bishop of Rome as the "head of all the holy churches." But full sovereignty could not be realized as long as the Ostrogoths held power in Rome. You remember that the Ostrogoths were the last of the three kingdoms which would not recognize the Roman bishop's authority. Then in 538 the Ostrogoths were overwhelmingly defeated. The bishop of Rome, with unchallenged political and ecclesiastical authority, was now the most powerful man in the West. That year, 538, marks the beginning of the 1260 years of papal supremacy. Now let's do some addition.

A.D. 538
+1260 years
A.D. 1798

On February 10, 1798, during the French Revolution, Napoleon's general, Berthier, entered Rome, proclaimed a republic, and took the pope prisoner. The pope died shortly thereafter in Valence, France. That year, 1798, marks the end of the 1260 years of papal supremacy.

10. Its Apparent Death

"As it were wounded to death" Revelation 13:3
We have just described the death blow which the papacy received exactly 1260 years after it had gained its supremacy. Two factors reveal the significance of this event:
Unlike any previous schism, this de-poping was inflicted by an outside authority whose sole motive was to destroy the entire papal structure.
By 1798 the general attitude toward the papacy had changed. From then on, the supremacy in world affairs that the pope had enjoyed for centuries was gone.

11. Its Healing

"His deadly wound was healed" Revelation 13:3
In 1870 the Italian government took over the city of Rome. But in 1929 Cardinal Gasparri met Premier Mussolini in the Lateran Palace to sign the Treaty of the Vatican, returning political power to the papacy. The Catholic Advocate in Australia (April 18, 1929, p. 16) said that its effect was to "heal a wound of 59 years." The front page of the San Francisco Chronicle of February 12, 1929 carried the headline, "Heal Wound of Many Years." The Associated Press dispatch of the event said, "In affixing the autographs to the memorable document, healing the wound which has festered since 1870, extreme cordiality was displayed on both sides." Thus in 1929 Vatican City was recognized as an independent state, the pope its king. Religious and civil power were once again united in the papal office.

12. Its World-Wide Popularity

"All the world wondered after the beast" Revelation 13:3
On March 9, 1929 the pope could say, "The peoples of the entire world are with us." Today there is not a man on earth who receives more publicity, or whose movements are more closely followed than the pope.

http://www.champs-of-truth.com/lessons/REV13.jpg

Stacie Fil

05-11-2006, 09:18 PM

pc2005it

05-12-2006, 01:13 AM

Ay, ang labo. :scratch: :confused:

Ang naintindihan ko lang, paki correct nga kung mali ano. Sinasabi mo na ang meaning nang Rev13 is about tha Papacy. Therefore ang lahat nang bagay at ka-haba habang posting na litanya mo rito ay "hate mail" lamang nang protestant belief against catholic...

Tsk,tsk,tsk... alam mo na kung bakit magulo mundo?:insane:

Haaaaay, buhay nga naman. :ohlord: :weep:

Paalala lang hane! Sabi nang matatanda; Kapag dumura ka daw sa langit, sa mukha mo rin ito babalik.:bricks: :growl: :shutup:

:whistle: Godspeed... :)

Di naman siguro "hate mail" ang tawag doon. Ano na ulit ang tawag doon, alexb?
Kaya pala magulo ang mundo....tsk,tsk,tsk .
Kaya habang buhay pa tayo, e dapat makatulong sa ikaaayos ng mundo. Hayaan na lang nating si Cristo ang mag-interpret ng Rev