Commercializing and exploiting the colorful lives of Filipinos

[Tonyang]

Ka-TF:

Isang exposay ("di tsismis") muli... be careful! Ito'y isang obserbasyon para huwag tayong pagamit kung ang purpose ay pansarili at hindi para matulungan ang "cause" para masolusyonan ang problema kung problema at para maiangat ang bayan. Malinaw na exploitation ito ng buhay ng mga Pinoy.

Naranasan na ninyo sigurong ma-interview o mahingan ng survey pero iyung mga resulta o mga data ay gagamitin daw sa study, research o scholarship sa isang university sa Japan o kaya naman, para maisulat sa libro o magazine.

Very colorful ang buhay ng mga Pinoy...kaya ang mga manunulat o may business na research, hinahabol at hinahanap ang mga Pinoy.

Di masama... infact, nagiging controversial at sikat ang mga Pinoy sa larangan ng NGO world, sa mga diyaryo, mabili ang mga babasahin dahil sa mga napaka-sensitive na mga istorya at tanging Pinoy lamang ang nakagagawa nito.

They're getting profits from our colorful lives... they're using us too much. In exchange, while such ventures will help raise consciousness or awareness worldwide, solutions to such problems or issues are never realized or implemented at all in real life. Poverty is worsening... but these historians and research scholars are earning a lot of money.

Example... ang galing nilang mag-explain ng theory sa Sociology o Psychology tungkol sa mga issue ng mga babaeng migrante. Laman sila sa UN, World Bank, ADB, IMF at kung anu-ano pang mga conference para ilathala ang kanilang mga tuklas na kababalaghan. Well-connected ang social cost, migration, gender issues etc etc. Naisusulat nila ang mga iyan sa napakaraming journals... may iba sigurong tumutulong pero karaniwan pag binigyan mo sila ng actual cases na dapat tulungan, uurong sila dahil busy sa pag-aaral o bawal daw sa estado nila o may conflict of interest. Tama ba iyon?

Bukas makalawa, may lalapit sa inyong Pinoy o foreigner na magtatanong kung may kilalang Pinoy na bilog o may-asawang Hapon o may anak na abandoned etc... the most controversial ones you can think of. They want to sensationalize those and put them in papers, articles etc.

Historians must stop exploiting the lives of Filipinos... kung may pera sa pagsusulat ng mga buhay ng mga Pinoy, ang unang makinabang dapat ang mga apektado na gustong sumulong ang buhay. Kung ganito ang economic cycle sana... you write about the lives of Filipinos and then you share the 50-50 profits from the commercialization of those lives to these interviewed Filipinos then you are making a fair trade.

Be careful Kabayan! Know the purpose... if the purpose is not clear to you and you don't know if it will help the Philippines DIRECTLY... as in may definite solutions sila para maresolba ang problema, ingat lang. Marami na tayong scholars masyado na sumusulat lang ng libro... we need actioners now!

[NemoySpruce]

Alam ko kasi yan talaga ang trabaho ng Historians, Journalists at Novelists. Humanap ng kwento at isulat, at kumita ng pera. Bonus na lang yun kung makatulong sila. Trabaho ng social workers ang magbigay ng tulong sa mga nangangailangan at humihingi ng tulong, at kumita ng pera kung maari. Tama ka, 'exploitation' ito, pero kung hindi naman sila nakaka sama sa mga taong napag kukunan nila ng kwento, walang kaso yan. Kung may pera sa pagsusulat ng buhay ng mga Pinoy, ay responsibilidad nung Pinoy, na ilagay sa bote ang kwento nya at ibenta para kumita, kasi ang may ari ng kwento ay ang manunulat. Kung masama ang loob mo dahil nakikita mong gumagawa ng limpak-limpak na pera ang mga Historians, Journalists at Nobelista sa mga kwento ng mga naghihirap nating kababayan, bakit hindi ka sumulat ng kwento at ibenta mo, tapos ang kita ay ibigay mo sa mga kababayan natin.

[sensei]

Gusto ko lang po malaman kung Historian, Journalist or Novelist po ba si ka Tonyang.
Mahina po kase ako sa ingles kaya itatanong ko lang kung ano po ba ang exploitation.
Example din po ba ito (http://www.timog.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397 1)
Kumikita po ba talaga ang nobelista?
Nagtatanong lang po.

[proud me]

Gusto ko lang po malaman kung Historian, Journalist or Novelist po ba si ka Tonyang.
Mahina po kase ako sa ingles kaya itatanong ko lang kung ano po ba ang exploitation.
Example din po ba ito (http://www.timog.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397 1)
Kumikita po ba talaga ang nobelista?
Nagtatanong lang po. @sensei...pareho pala tayo mahina rin ako sa ingles eh, ano nga ba ang "EXPLOITATION"...kung yan eh, example..eh,di ang problema pala kumikita at libre? :D o kumporme sa diskarte?

[NemoySpruce]

Ayon sa mahiwagang wikipedya dalawa ang ibig sabihin ng 'exploitation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation)'

ang pinaka malapit ata na tagalog word ay 'pag-gamit'. katulad ng sa tagalog, and salitang ito ay nag iiba ang ibigsabihin, dipende sa intensyon ng gumagamit. pwedeng 'Ginamit lang nya ako...hikbi...' or 'Ginamit sya ng diyos para maka tulong sa kapwa..'

exploitation can mean 'to use something',i.e. 'We should exploit our natural resources in a responsible manner'

or something negative. 'Politicians always exploit the poor'

[proud me]

@salamat kabayan nemoy spruce...salamat din sa guro ko..hindi mali yong tinuro nya sa akin na ingles :D

[sensei]

ang pinaka malapit ata na tagalog word ay 'pag-gamit'. katulad ng sa tagalog, and salitang ito ay nag iiba ang ibigsabihin, dipende sa intensyon ng gumagamit. pwedeng 'Ginamit lang nya ako...hikbi...' or 'Ginamit sya ng diyos para maka tulong sa kapwa..'



"In political economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_economy), economics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics), and sociology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology), exploitation involves a persistent social relationship in which certain persons are being mistreated or unfairly used for the benefit of others"

So kung hindi ako Journalist or Novelist pwede rin bang masabing nag-exploit ako ng kapwa?
Social exploitation ba tawag kung ipo-post ko sa TF ang social lives ng kapwa filipino?
Kahit wala namang benefit ito sa akin?
I just want to learn something from this topic...sorry
please enlighten

[v_wrangler]

Ayon sa mahiwagang wikipedya dalawa ang ibig sabihin ng 'exploitation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation)'

ang pinaka malapit ata na tagalog word ay 'pag-gamit'. katulad ng sa tagalog, and salitang ito ay nag iiba ang ibigsabihin, dipende sa intensyon ng gumagamit. pwedeng 'Ginamit lang nya ako...hikbi...' or 'Ginamit sya ng diyos para maka tulong sa kapwa..'

exploitation can mean 'to use something',i.e. 'We should exploit our natural resources in a responsible manner'

or something negative. 'Politicians always exploit the poor'

I think the closest to Ka Tonyang's take on Exploitation is "PAGSASAMANTALA"
That is to use something or someone for one's own advantage.

[docomo]

[quote=sensei
So kung hindi ako Journalist or Novelist pwede rin bang masabing nag-exploit ako ng kapwa?
Social exploitation ba tawag kung ipo-post ko sa TF ang social lives ng kapwa filipino?
Kahit wala namang benefit ito sa akin?
I just want to learn something from this topic...sorry
please enlighten[/quote]

i think yes... edit social..exploitation itself ..it's an unfair treatment of someone or the use of a situation in a way that is wrong , in order to get benefit for yourself.:)

social ~pinaganda or dinagdag lang to make it sound you're not exploiting.. ganun din meaning

[NemoySpruce]

So kung hindi ako Journalist or Novelist pwede rin bang masabing nag-exploit ako ng kapwa?

Definitely yes.


Social exploitation ba tawag kung ipo-post ko sa TF ang social lives ng kapwa filipino?
Kahit wala namang benefit ito sa akin?
Sa tingin ko po, ay hindi. Kung walang benefit, ay palagay ko hindi matatawag na exploitation iyun. It would be against the Forum rules if you used real names, but if not then everything is legal. The most you can call it is 'Bad form' or 'Bad taste' to post private things about other people on a public forum. I personally, am against talking about specific people while remaining anonymous. Parang binabatukan mo ang isang bulag nyan..walang kalaban laban. Its better to discuss 'issues' than people. Kung tao ang pinaguusapan, eh tsismis yan. this is not Timog Tsismis. I wonder if other members would agree.

[NemoySpruce]

I think the closest to Ka Tonyang's take on Exploitation is "PAGSASAMANTALA"
That is to use something or someone for one's own advantage.

oh really? perhaps you can explain to me how 'Historians exploit the lives of the Filipinos'


Pano po pinagsasamantalahan ng mga Historians ang buhay ng mga Pilipino? Keep in mind that historians deal with facts, not fiction, not tsismis....

[v_wrangler]

oh really? perhaps you can explain to me how 'Historians exploit the lives of the Filipinos'


Pano po pinagsasamantalahan ng mga Historians ang buhay ng mga Pilipino? Keep in mind that historians deal with facts, not fiction, not tsismis....

Perhaps baka gusto mong basahin ulit ang thread. Hindi ako ang nag-post ng tanong - iniayos ko lang ang tinagalog mo pag-gamit na kung saan mas appropriate sa palagay ko ang salitang "pagsasamantala" base sa pagkakaintindi ko sa thread na ito ni Ka Tonyang. Ask her baka sagutin ka niya.

[NemoySpruce]

Sa tingin ko kasi, in this statement "Historians exploit the lives of the Filipinos", pag tinagalog mo, at ginamit natin ang 'pagsasamantala',the original statement becomes false.

"Ang mga 'Historians' ay pinagsasamantalahan ang mga buhay ng Pilipino" abuse is implied, which does not make sense. whereas

"Ang mga 'Historians' ay ginagamit ang mga buhay ng Pilipino" this is a neutral statement, historians use the lives of the Filipinos as material for their writings.. true.

'Pagsasamantala' 'Pag-gamit' at 'exploit' and 'use', are synonymous, pero medyo iba ng konti. I just wanted to say, that I do not see how Historians can do harm to an entire race.

[v_wrangler]

Sa tingin ko kasi, in this statement "Historians exploit the lives of the Filipinos", pag tinagalog mo, at ginamit natin ang 'pagsasamantala',the original statement becomes false.

"Ang mga 'Historians' ay pinagsasamantalahan ang mga buhay ng Pilipino" abuse is implied, which does not make sense. whereas

"Ang mga 'Historians' ay ginagamit ang mga buhay ng Pilipino" this is a neutral statement, historians use the lives of the Filipinos as material for their writings.. true.

'Pagsasamantala' 'Pag-gamit' at 'exploit' and 'use', are synonymous, pero medyo iba ng konti. I just wanted to say, that I do not see how Historians can do harm to an entire race.

Hello Nemui, wala naman talagang mali sa translation mo. Pero if we'll use the word, "paggamit" - hindi na iyon magiging tumpok sa nais ipahatid na katanungan ni Ka Tonyang.

Whether it is a false statement or a question in itself - ipagpapaubaya ko sa inyo ang pagsasaliksik sa kadahilanang dehins ko alam ang sagot sa tanong ni Ka Tonyang.

Best Regards,

[Tonyang]

Salamat sa mga sumali sa thread na ito.

Thanks sa pag-explain, VWrangler. Thanks sa mga tanong patungkol sa mga historian, Nemoy.

I hope Nemoy, mas itanong natin kung bakit may pagsasamantala o maintindihan iyung mensahe kung bakit may exploitation. Di naman natin babanggitin ang ganitong mensahe kung wala tayong nakikitang mali sa sitwasyon.

Example ng pagsasamantala kapatid na Nemoy... I think di tayo nagkaintindihan kaya ibibigay ko ang ilang sitwasyon... hahabulin ka niya at pipiliting magkaroon ka ng oras para sa kanila para masagot iyung mga tanong nila then gastos mo pati pagkain at transpo para ma-meet siya dahil sa mga tanong niya. O kaya naman, alam niya na may mga tinutulungan ka sa mga sector na gusto niyang pag-aralan o pilit niyang pinag-aaralan dahil sa research grant o para may conference paper siya nang makapag-present. Tapos sa mga pagkakataong iyon, makikiusap ka na tumulong din sa mga nangyayari sa sector like advocacy at counseling o kaya, representation halimbawa sa court o pag-assist ng kaso sa Philippine embassy o kung may oras para mai-share sa community iyung mga resulta ng kanyang pag-aaral kung sakali at marami pang puwedeng gawin para mas diretso ang tulong sa community dahil iyun talaga ang kailangan natin ngayon. Kaya ako ilag ako sa mga propesor pag humihingi ng tulong... feeling ko pinagbibili ko ang mga kakilala ko sa kanila eh well as my own interpretation. Kasi, sila natutulungan ang mga study nila para mas maging sikat sila lalo pero iyung mga biktima at mas kawawa, wala namang epek sa kanila halos... ni hindi sila matulungan ng mga ginawang pag-aaral.

Kakaunti ang mga NGO at volunteers natin... mas marami ang nag-aaral at pinag-aaralan nila para idokumento...pero pag dokumentado na, dini-discuss lamang at iyung sakuna at problema, nagmu-multiply. Pag nagmu-multiply ang problema, nagmu-multiply rin ang possibilities para mailathala at maging journal article o famous sa pag-aaral ng sector na ito... pinakamagandang halimbawa, trafficking ng mga Pinay sa Japan.

O kaya naman, nabigyan siya ng research grant sa Japan dahil sa napakagaling niyang magsulat ng mga istorya ng mga Pinay na entertainer. Nag-undercover siya para malaman ang mga inside story sa isang omise... dohan and all... then pag isinulat na niya, dapat may "sensational" para mabenta ang libro niya ng husto at pag-usapan di ba? Given that, natulungan ba niya ang sector na ito o lalo niyang dinumihan ang lahing Pinoy? Pls ask me again... ikukuwento ko ng buo. How they exploit our lives to make their stories sell. Napakalinis ng racket nila kasi nakalibro at hardbound pa at nakalagay sa mga library ng big-time universities na may Sociology studies o mga bookstore na nakatatak pa ang "Best Seller".

Sa isang UN University conference, medyo nakasingit tayo kahit di nagsalita at bida roon ang gumawa ng isang sensational study sa 9 o 10 Pinay na naging trafficking victims. Kinausap ko sila... very proud sila at pinalakpakan sila at nagawan nila ng documentation ang mga Pinay na iyon. Ang dami tuloy nakaalam na mga manunulat at historian sa UN. Galing!!! Asaan na sila ngayon? Gumagawa na sila ng part 2... hinihintay ko iyung istorya ulit. On the way to Shibuya habang naglalakad, inengganyo ko iyung Pinay na co-writer ng sensational study... sabi ko sa kanya, gawa naman tayo ng advocacy para mabawasan ang mga nangyayaring malulungkot na ganyan. Sagot niya, "why not". Very positive... then noong maghihiwalay na kami, di ko nalaman kung may next meeting pa kami.

Alright... may sense naman ang mga paghihirap nila dahil kinakawaan ang mga Pinay na naging kawawa sa trafficking case na experiences. Natulungan ba sila ng mga exposay na iyon? Kung mayroon tayong nalalaman, pls share... would like to know na may natulungan ng mga ganyang style ng pagsusulat.

Para sa ating mga concerned... I hope tutukan natin iyung pangaapi at hindi iyung statement of whatever misinterpretation there was... Marami nang sumikat na mga manunulat ng mga buhay ng Pilipino. They are the ones who are most qualified to help solve the situation. Medyo baguhin natin iyung trend at sana huwag hiwalay iyung pagsusulat at pag-aksyon para ganap na matulungan ang sector o cause na gusto nating tulungan. We want to write because we want to solve the problem. I suppose. We just don't write it for the sake of submitting a thesis or one of a kind study to reach the top and be branded as "excellent". Di na dapat ganito eh... nanganganak na ang mga problema. Kakaunti lang iyung gustong mabawasan ang mga ito. Kung may gusto mang mabawasan ang mga ito, madalas doleout.. you know bigay ng pera dahil di naman nila pinag-aralan iyung ugat ng problema. So the most qualified to help iyung mga pinag-aralan ang mga problema at alam ang ugat ng mga ito. Hopefully, may pagasa pag ganito ang direksyon sana. Muli, huwag sanang hiwalay... magsusulat tayo at the same time, gawan na natin ng aksyon.

Pakitanong na lang muli mga kapatid kung malabo pa rin. Salamat.

[NemoySpruce]

Tonyang, simplehan ko na lang ang tanong ko. Pano naiba itong mga manunulat na sinisita mo, sa mga jornalista na araw araw nangongolekta ng balita, at di nangengealam sa mga taong pinangagalingan ng balita?

[Tonyang]

Simplehan ko rin ang tanong sa iyo kapatid, tingin mo ok lang ang ginagawa nila? Your analysis is correct that all of them are writers about lives of others but I pointed out a specific subsector, not the usual.

[NemoySpruce]

Ng mga journalists? yes. i dont see exploitation there. meron ba?

[Tonyang]

Nemoy, have you experienced being interviewed by the specific subsector of writers that I had been referring to and are you aware of their existence? Iyung "journalist" na qualifier na iyung isinulat ay relative at puwedeng isang discussion muli dahil mass media ang venture nila di ba? At kung pag-uusapan ang mga diyaryo at mga magazine, may levels ang mga iyan.

So ok lang sa iyo ang mga ginagawa ng specific subsector na nandito sa Japan mismo o bibisita sa Japan para ilathala ang mga buhay ng mga OFW at pag inalok sila ng action programs o nagmungkahi ng action programs sa kanila, tatalikod sila?

Aware ka rin kapatid sa mga NGO at mga ginagawa ng mga ito?

[NemoySpruce]

hindi po ako aware. i never knew there were such 'subsector of writers'. i have never been interviewed by anyone for this kind of thing. Probably because i dont think i have any story worth telling to the public.

I have no idea what NGOs you are talking about. Have you posted about them before? maybe I should read another thread. At any rate, in this thread we are discussing a subsector of 'writers' that you believe are exploiting the colorful lives of our kababayans. 'exploiting' in a negative way, because exploiting can mean 'using' and not causing harm to the ones being used.

So is my question still valid? How are these 'subsector of writers' different from journalists and novelists? They all write stories, their intentions are to make money. The more people reading their works, the more money they get. What makes them 'bad people' ? how are they exploiting the colorful lives of our kababayans?

They refuse 'actions' that you offer them, but does that mean they do not help the people they write about? Their works will be read by other people, and may eventually be used to alleviate the situation. Who decides how much help they should pay for the information they have received and exploited?

[Tonyang]

Ok Nemoy... I had experienced such and I had been dragged to various situations which I couldn't control because I was so kind :D and I thought such opportunities could help others :D. Ok?

By the way, Nemoy, are you a writer too?

Now, before I answer your question, how sure are you that there were readers trying to help alleviate the situation. Take for instance, trafficking case. This is a very sensational case. True that carrying out advocacy is through mass media seems the "only" effective way. There's no other tested and proven way to reach more people. But then, that only means had exploited the lives of many people already. Do we have any other means to try? Yes there are.. teaching in schools and churches.

There's no difference in the mechanics between the specific subsector of writers who are in Japan that I had been pointing out and what you know as another sector of writers you call journalists. But targets maybe categorized and that's the main point of this discussion. I wrote earlier that we focus on this specific subsector then perhaps level up the analysis. Why? Writers could be classified and it's rather complicated if we'll not understand our scenarios and risks first from this specific subsector before we move to its super set or complementary set. How much they receive and what they should work for could be decided beforehand or imaginary or sky is the limit.

The more we generalize, the more it becomes impossible to grasp the substance of this discussion and the goal that we want others to understand. This is a specific case we could identify with specific examples in Japan and how much we could try to work with them to help the situation for example, trafficking case. Do you want to understand the exploitation in this specific case or you want to keep your position and force the issue of generalizing the writers? Which way do you want to go? Help solve our differences or keep them as differences?

[NemoySpruce]

Im just trying to understand your 'exposay' ... you are warning us about researchers whom you say are exploiting the lives of the filipinos. So far you have described these people as a subsector of mainstream journalists. But you have not specified how they are different from journalists, and how they are exploiting our colorful lives.

[Tonyang]

Nemoy, I had written that their respective goals (ie in-depth analysis) are different though their mechanics are the same. For this difference, that is tantamount to what I had been referring to. This is not to forget the "dragging" tendency of the specific subsector.

Should we move to the discussion of the specific subsector now because you've not suggested any solution to help our kababayans regarding this exploitation.

[NemoySpruce]

Nemoy, I had written that their respective goals (ie in-depth analysis) are different though their mechanics are the same. For this difference, that is tantamount to what I had been referring to. This is not to forget the "dragging" tendency of the specific subsector.

Should we move to the discussion of the specific subsector now because you've not suggested any solution to help our kababayans regarding this exploitation.

I think we should clarify what we are discussing before we move on to suggestions and to prevent confusion and so as not to waste any more of the reader's time. You need to clarify 2 things:

1) How exactly is this exploitation supposedly being done?
2) who is doing it to whom?

this is very simple, and can be clarified in 2-3 sentences. Your extensive posts do not address these 2 points because:

1) you do not define who these 'exploiters' are, you are saying they are a subsector of professional writers different only in the 'in-depth' analysis of their topics, and a 'dragging' tendency? (what does that mean?)

2) you say our kababayans are being exploited, but in your example, you were the one exploited.

First step in solving a problem is to identify the problem.

[Tonyang]

Nemoy, I think I don't need to convince you. It's up to you to believe it or not. Each one of us is subject to one's opinion. If you think that it' s not exploitation then I respect that opinion of yours. If you want to put me as an example, you must have missed out other examples that I had shared with more significance. Let me quote again - human trafficking.

I think I could use the time to work on the safety side for our other kababayans. There must be more innocent ones who don't really understand how their lives are being used for others' success and I am referring to those who had been interviewed or had experienced such interrogations for their in-depth analysis, research and income-generation.

I also think that you're one of the needed ones to help the country if you can do indepth analysis and evaluate gaps in analysis and perhaps. raise concerns and actions to prevent such. Let's not too focused on words... actions are more significant.

[NemoySpruce]

Hello Tonyang, I think I need to clear up a few things. I dont know you, but from what I have read from your posts here in Timog, I am guessing you work for or volunteer for an NGO that helps Filipino OFWs here in japan. I think that is very admirable and noble, I cannot imagine your motivations for doing that. I have enough problems on my own, directly helping strangers with their problems is unthinkable for me. I do however like solving problems and issues remotely, in the comfort of my armchair(or futon). This is where my 3rd degree interogation is comming from. I want to help in my own way. You have presented an issue, but I am trying to understand and clarify the problem so we can discuss effective solutions. Compared to actions, words are less important, but you need words to communicate and coordinate with other people, effective communication leads to effective action. If you can learn to organize your ideas, and put it on paper, you will find your efforts to be more fruitful.

[Tonyang]

Thanks, Nemoy. I am a volunteer Mover and I have a full time job in Japan. Pls provide an example to help organize one's thoughts to have a more fruitful endeavor most especially if you want to help in anti-human trafficking causes in Japan.

[NemoySpruce]

Well that would be a bit off topic to this thread wouldnt it?

[d_southpaw]

Well that would be a bit off topic to this thread wouldnt it?

Makikisabat po. Interesting discussion you have here. That is okay even if it is way off topic.

Cant wait to hear your ideas. Specially those that you actually do or will actually do.

[NemoySpruce]

The title of the thread is:

Commercializing and exploiting the colorful lives of Filipinos

I was asking for clarification on what this means exactly. Basically I was told that, its not important, lets discuss what we need to do about it. Now you want to know what I will actually do about it? Absolutely nothing. I try not to mess with things that I know nothing about. Most likely result is I will make the situation worse. I try not to interfere with other people's lives unless I am asked to, and unless I am sure I know what to do to help alleviate the situation. I mind my own business unless someone asks me for help. And when I do help someone, I dont go around posting public forums about it. I dont have a chip on my shoulder because I help people. Its idiotic to do that, and quite childish. If you help a lot of people, then good for you, if it makes you feel 'superior' somehow, then there is something wrong. I dont think going off topic is proper, I mean a lot of people invested a lot of hours developing this system to organize the information we post on this forum, so lets respect that and keep threads within the topic.

[v_wrangler]

If you help a lot of people, then good for you, if it makes you feel 'superior' somehow, then there is something wrong. I dont think going off topic is proper, I mean a lot of people invested a lot of hours developing this system to organize the information we post on this forum, so lets respect that and keep threads within the topic

I've just finished reading this thread again from page one and it's unfortunate that I couldn't find the specific part where Tonyang even displayed hints of arrogant superiority. To the people who know about her community work, I bet there'll be no contest. So I would assume it was plainly an assumption on the part of Nemoy? Quite a dangerous one - so to further avoid misunderstandings, I would like to request that we all try to be a little careful when making personal commentaries the next time. With regards to being off-topic, while we admire the cautions - I can also understand the light request by Southpaw judging from the number of replies by Nemoy in this particular thread which make one think that he might have quite a lot to say. If it is the contrary, it would be advisable to simply refrain from replying when the topic goes beyond our interest, or unless we have a definite answer to share.

On the other hand, I can also understand Tonyang's dilemna, but in the process, disagree in the idea that it is enough of a reason to hit our heads. I say this because Tonyang always had a choice. Its either you entertain the request or not. I know it would have been different if there were promises of mutual benefits in the first place. I hope this becomes a lesson for all of us - if it will not serve our purposes, junk it. Its sad, but huwag nang basta-basta magtiwala. Easy as that.

In the meantime, we encourage intelligent debates on the topic and in the absence of one, we'll be happy to delete succeeding posts or close the thread in finality.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[Tonyang]

Gusto lang sigurong pag-usapan ni Nemoy pero walang commitment kung puwede siyang makatulong sa human trafficking case halimbawa. Kasi ok lalo kung malalim na usapan tapos gawan natin ng paraan kung may magagawa tayong aksyon. Matinding problema iyan. Analyze natin ng husto tapos tulungan na natin iyung problema. Ok lang ba kapatid?

[d_southpaw]

Noted kabayang wrangler. It is just a bit sad to see the trend that nemoy will drag his/her issue although that is not the main reason of the poster. Eh yon ngang tungkol don sa actual na tulong na ginagawa, ia-associate pa sa negative context.

Hey nemoy, a lot of country, people, just donated money and efforts to the earthquake victims in Indonesia. Those actions are on the news. They must feel superior eh, if we will base on your judgment criteria.

Also, a lot of huge multinational companies usually write their philanthropy works on their websites. What is your viewpoint on them? Nagyayabang lang sila?

If Tonyang has not been public with her deeds/programs, her action on helping poor students in the Philippines may not have resulted to hundreds of students being able to go to school and graduate. It is not about feeling superior or anything to your one sided negative viewpoint. It is about actually helping others and hoping that many others will also do so, in whatever ways negligible to them.

There are a lot of positive things on those actions.

Moderators. Please feel free to delete if this is out of line. My apologies.

[NemoySpruce]

I've just finished reading this thread again from page one and it's unfortunate that I couldn't find the specific part where Tonyang even displayed hints of arrogant superiority.
--v_wrangler

Hmmm.. I wasnt accusing anyone in particular of being 'arrogantly superior', i think youve made a dangerous assumption, you should have clarified if that is what i meant before you posted. I am sorry if that is how you read into it. That sentence was meant for everyone reading it in general. Its not an accusation, its just a statement of fact 'If you help a lot of people, then good for you, if it makes you feel 'superior' somehow, then there is something wrong' ... basically what im trying to say is, it is wrong to think you are better than other people because you are in the business of helping people. I wasnt accusing anyone of anything.

I thought this thread was about 'Commercializing and exploiting the colorful lives of Filipinos', but i guess from v_wrangler's contribution to the discussion, it is not. Its about Tonyang's personal experience with a researcher who abused/exploited her. My mistake.

[d_southpaw]

Hmmm.. I wasnt accusing anyone in particular of being 'arrogantly superior'

Sure. You will go round n round circles with twisted reasonings.

This is what you posted.


And when I do help someone, I dont go around posting public forums about it. I dont have a chip on my shoulder because I help people. Its idiotic to do that, and quite childish. If you help a lot of people, then good for you, if it makes you feel 'superior' somehow, then there is something wrong.

Hindi nga lang about superiority ang sinabi mo. 'Idiot' pa kamo pag ginawa nilang public yong ginagawa nila.

You like calling people idiots, childish, delusional, hypocrite. What other descriptives you call others eh? Kung yan nga nasusulat mo with no hesitation, what worse expressions do you have within yourself ?

Posting in public forums, posting in their own sites, putting information on the news - those are good things if it is about good deeds, and if the intention of making things public is good.

Do not label people with negatives, just because you cannot do the good things that they do.

[v_wrangler]

I thought this thread was about 'Commercializing and exploiting the colorful lives of Filipinos', but i guess from v_wrangler's contribution to the discussion, it is not. Its about Tonyang's personal experience with a researcher who abused/exploited her. My mistake.

Sometimes we interrupt the discussions in the hopes of calming the waters. Its not really a very glamorous job. If you know a much better way so mods will remain more "on-topic" while in the exercise of our duties, please feel free to PM me or the Admins. I'm sure we'll be very happy to listen to anything you'd say. Since I have a very short attention span, just make sure it is precise and none of those going round and round in circles. I do not know if it is just me but I always get headaches trying to figure out what exactly you want to say or do. And I am not trying to be funny.

In the meantime, this will be my last warning to all. DO NOT flood this thread with anything that does not contribute to the topic.

If you have a thing or two to say to another user: USE PM, its there for a reason.

[Tonyang]

VWrangler, Dsouthpaw, hold it mga kapatid with Nemoy... Pati si Dsouthpaw, isa sa mga aktibo sa larangan ng tulungan din kaya iyung pinupunto natin simula pa tungkol sa exploitation, madali niyang naintindihan. Pasensiya na kayo kung nagkagulo kasi pag may mga concerned tayong kababayan na nakakasama kahit sa thread lamang, isang magandang pagkakataon di ba?

Huwag tayong mag-away... masama iyun. Lahat tayo concerned... kaya dapat magkaisa tayo.

Analysis...usapang malalim. Pero ano nga naman ang purpose natin bakit natin shared ang ganitong topic? Para malaman (cognitive level)...pero Nemoy, hindi hanggang sa level na ito lamang at tulad ng nabanggit ko sa iyo. I don't need to convince you to believe what I had cited. Nag-agree ka naman kaya ok na siguro. Sabagay, iba iba ang interpretation ng babasa. Natural naman iyon. Siguro nga di ko maipaliwanag ng tama kasi nakita ko na iyung problema. One iyung referral system. Pero kung naiintindihan iyung problema, di sana umikot sa pagkakasulat nito kundi iyung level 2 (affective). Naramdaman kung bakit naging problema at tatawaging exploitation. Then kung talagang concerned, tulungan natin... iyan naman iyung psychomotor level na. Pero kasi umikot lamang tayo sa cognitive level. Para mas malinaw sana, iyung human trafficking case. Di ako iyung na-traffick. Hehe! Ako iyung isa sa mga tumutulong sa mga nata-traffick na mga kababayang Pinay natin. Then iyung anggulong nakita ko iyung paggamit ng mga buhay nila para mailathala ng mga writer na pag nakuha na iyung istorya na, bahala na sila sa buhay nila pagkatapos ba... parang ganon na lang ba. Masakit talaga...naramdaman kong masakit para sa kanila bilang Pinoy na very concerned. Kung nakarinig na kayo ng istorya ng trafficking, madugo. Nakakaiyak. Nasa dilemna sila... siyempre gusto nila ng kausap at makikinig pero iyung mga nakasalamuha kong writers...after lang sila sa pag-meet ng deadline nila para sa research grant nila. So iyung experience ko, nakasalamuha ko ang iba't ibang manunulat at iba't ibang lahi rin... Ibang anggulo at naging general ang analysis ni Nemoy. Ok lang iyun. I insisted "specific case" sana ang tutukan natin kaya ko binanggit iyung human trafficking. Pero generalization pa rin ang gusto ni Nemoy. So magkaiba iyung gusto nating puntuhan, Nemoy.

Pero Nemoy... huwag na huwag mo sanang isipin na dapat ipagmalaki o maging arogante tungkol sa pagtulong sa kapwa dahil voluntary ito at gusto mo lang gawin. Tapos depende rin kung paano ang naistorya kaya ang dating ay parang arogante ako. Well pasensiya na kapatid. I am sure pag para makatulong ang pakay ng isang nilalang, kulang na kulang na ang oras para magmalaki pa kapatid. Walang nagdikta o tumulak para gawin ang ganoong sakripisyo. Tama si VWrangler...choice ng tao. Pero VWrangler...sana maraming Pinoy na maimpluwensiyahan natin dahil napakarami nating problema sa Pinas para mabawasan kahit konti (oops OT).

So naishare ko itong bagay na ito dahil tama, personal kong nai-experience ang pakikisalamuha sa mga writer at personal ko ring analysis ang form of exploitation na ginagawa nila sa mga kababayang nating biktima ng human trafficking. It's up to the reader to believe or not. Thanks Nemoy for keeping this thread alive. Mukhang di naman malayo na next time, ikaw naman kapatid ang magiging aktibo rin para ipaglaban ang mga biktima ng exploitation.

VWrangler, thanks for the analysis of the message exchange...

TGIF to all.

[d_southpaw]

No worries Tonyang. Hindi kami nag-aaway. It is just my plain/straight feedback to my observation that nemoy tends to have negative guesses to my last few posts on topics we're both joining. If it is taken as positive criticism - which is what i intended in that particular post, salamat. If it gets negative response, shouganai. Will just stop in that particular thread - which I did in previous cases. No interest in engaging in unpleasant word exchanges.

Notice the the last two paragraphs in my last post does not carry negative messages.