Trainees second-class citizens in Japan?

[reon]

japantimesHere's an interesting article (http://news.google.com/news?oe=UTF-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=second+class+citiz ens+japan+times&btnG=Search+News) (via Google, because a direct link will require a username and password) from Japan Times about trainees from the Philippines working in Japan. The article suggests that most Japanese companies that hire "trainees" from developing countries abuse the system. I have to say I disagree with large parts of this article.

"I knew then that someone was playing jokes on me," Bucio says. "So I pleaded and told everyone to please give me back my shoes, because I didn't want to be late for work. Nobody budged. I became desperate. I lost my cool."

What happened next set in motion a chain of events that would take over Bucio's life for the following year. "I took a garden hoe," he says, "and using it, I smashed at the improvised wooden shoe rack that I and my other co-workers made from scrap wood."

[dcat]

Nabasa ko yung article, reon. Hmmn, oo nga medyo exaggerated nga yung dating.

Sabi ""Some trainees get only a measly 50,000 yen a month and they have to pay for their food, electricity, gas and water" - hindi ko alam kung papano mabubuhay yung mga trainee sa ganitong sweldo, eh kung ibabadget natin kunwari na 20,000 yen lang every month ang gagastusin sa pagkain (masyadong tipid na 'to, at kaya lang 'to kapag magluluto sya ha), at yung tubig, kuryent, at gas sabihin na natin 10,000 yen (super-tipid din to) - e di 20,000 yen nalang ang matitira. So ibig sabihin makakapagpadala sya ng mga 18,000 yen every month sa pamilya nya sa pinas (less 2,000 yen kasi may bayad yung pagpapadala eh). Syempre, yan ay kung talagang wala na syang gagawin pang iba: hindi na talaga sya bibili ng gamit sa pang-araw araw, magko-commute, gagala, makikipag-inuman, manchi-chicks, at kung ano ano pa. Napakagaling naman ng imaginary trainee natin na 'to - mala anghel.

Pero take note of the key word: "some", ang dating sa mga taong mabilisang nagbabasa yun yung average na salary ng mga trainees. Pero hindi syempre ito yung average. Sana para maging fair, nag-survey man lang sila ng sahod ng mga trainees at in-estimate man lang nila yung average na income para mas fair ang dating, kaso hindi eh - wala silang isinulat na authoritative, patas at makahulugang statistics tungkol dito.

Syempre, wala akong masyadong kaalaman dyan kasi estudyante lang ako dito eh. Siguro meron ngang mga ganyang nakakalungkot na kaso, pero sa palagay ko naman napakadalang lang nito.

Sige nga raw, yung mga may naexperience o may kakilalang ganito ang sitwasyon paki paliwanag naman sa amin nang maintindihan namin kayo (o sila). :)

p.s. @reon, hindi ba mas magandang i-exaggerate ito ng mga dyaryo sa Japan para gumanda lalo yung kalagayan ng mga manggagawang Pilipino dito? Hmmn...

[v_wrangler]

doble

[v_wrangler]

Trainees aren't exactly allowed to receive salaries because they aren't considered as employees. Although there isn't a standard rate, they receive a small amount for their daily expenses. The idea is - Japan as a friendly gesture, will provide training and transfer of technological know-how to its neighboring third-world countries. It wasn't viewed as an overseas employment arrangement but more like a humanitarian effort by Japan. Although the ideals are highly commendable - we cannot deny that it has been subject to abuse as well. Another source of temporary cheap labor some would say.

In my case, back in 1992 when I was here on game art development training, I was fortunate to have received Y80,000/month for my living expenses while my Philippine salaries trickled and waited in cold for my comeback. My apartment for the duration of the training was also provided for free by my sponsoring company.

Back to the article above - short of being accused as cold hearted, I think its more of a household spat blown out of proportion. Although we cannot deny that there are loopholes to the trainee system - I would still vouch for it but advise would-be trainees to carefully know the system first and the sponsoring company before signing a training contract.

[mylfer919mdo]

Well, I read the article. I admire that trainee who fought for his rights.
Just an advice for the possible trainees, they should know first the system before they sign any contract.

[PILIPINAS]

Trainees aren't exactly allowed to receive salaries because they aren't considered as employees. Although there isn't a standard rate, they receive a small amount for their daily expenses. The idea is - Japan as a friendly gesture, will provide training and transfer of technological know-how to its neighboring third-world countries. It wasn't viewed as an overseas employment arrangement but more like a humanitarian effort by Japan. Although the ideals are highly commendable - we cannot deny that it has been subject to abuse as well. Another source of temporary cheap labor some would say.


Definitely, I agree with v_wrangler on this. Being a trainee is a great opportunity to fly on with full career. The experiences and knowledge that someone can gain through out the training period are priceless.
I was also a technical trainee, together with other 12 engineers, way back in 1995. We didn't have a salary here in Japan, but we had a so called allowance, which was twice as much as our regular salary in the Philippines. Plus our board and lodging were also free. We never felt we were abused. I would say, that was a two-way stream. The Japanese company benefited from us (by meeting their expections and earnestly doing our job), and we also benefited from them.
'Yung iba sa mga kasama ko, ay naka-ilan balik na dito as technical trainees. Mas nakakaipon kase sila ng pera, kapag nandito sila sa Japan. But not all, are blessed with such opportunity.
The bottom line is, know your contract, before signing. Consult your HR.:D

[Tonyang]

Malinis iyung papel... sa mga nakasalamuha ko at natulungan sa Yokohama, Chiba at Tokyo, iyung nakalagay na suweldo nila sa contract na ipinapasa sa immigration, iba sa natatanggap nila. Tapos noon, umabot na ng 5 taon, intracompany visa pa rin sila. Trabaho nila parang mga ordinary employee sa kompanya at masakit sa lahat, walang bayad ang OT nila. Di lang "some" iyan, Dcat...napakarami nila. I am sure marami rito ang ganoon dahil mga IT engineer ang karamihan sa kanila. Ang trend pa ng mga outsourcing company na iyan, mag-recruit ng mga topnotcher na graduates at siyempre, attractive package kuno from Japan. Anong malay ng mga graduate natin kung anong klase ng "exploitation" ang gagawin sa kanila? Ooops baka may mag-intrepret muli sa isinulat ko kaysa tutukan iyung kaso.

Point is... how concerned are we to do more than discussing it? KJ ko no? O baka manahimik na tayo rito ulit... How strong are we to do more to save our situation as Filipinos working in Japan? We know that all of us are sharing the same level of risk... we have to admit it because we're Filipinos and we are not the favorite race in Japan. Each one of us has a share of this unexpected humiliation both in public and in private. Pls admit it. Most of us don't deserve it. It is happening to us simply because we're Filipinos. Pardon me kung nilalahat ko na kasi isang lahi lang naman tayo.

Another point is... where is that generation or group of Filipinos who want to do something to save our kind and defend for our rights in Japan? Should we need another issue before we do anything?

Dito mismo sa Timog o sa pakikisalamuha natin, may nakilala tayong naabuso at di nasusuwelduhan, may nanganak na hindi na nakabalik sa trabaho, may sexual harrassment, may nawalan ng trabaho o pinaalis na lang sa trabaho, may naakisdente sa trabaho, may binu-bully, may naloko ng mga katrabaho, may nanakawan, may nakulong na walang kasalanan, may nagugutom na hindi kumakain, etc etc

How much more do we want to hear, read and see before we actually do something? Inalok kayo ng union noon...pero ayaw ninyo kasi nakakatakot at sobra naman. Ang nakakatawa... we know na pag nagkaisa tayong lahat, may boses tayong malakas para di tayo naaapi kaso, kahit alam natin iyan, takot naman tayong harapin ang responsibilidad para magkatotoo ito? Saan ba tayo talaga? Magaling lang magkuwento o magsalita? Takot sa ibang responsibilidad? Kanya-kanya?

Kung di man sa lifetime natin, kailan kaya may grupo na kikilos at di lang individual? Sayang talaga...nauunahan lang tayo ng takot sa pagharap ng ibang responsibilidad. Infact sa totoo lang, di lang tayo sanay na ipaglaban ng sabay-sabay ang puwede nating ipaglaban. Noon nangyari iyung mga strike etc sa Edsa pero hanggang doon lang tayo... doon lang tayo magaling. Pag may lider na palpak, People Power kuno tayo. Iyun ang example ng hatak system which means nagpapadala lang tayo sa agos o kung anong uso o click, sama tayo. I could be wrong... pasensiya na ha at humaba ito. Because Filipinos have the capability to learn other cultures and that's very brave... how come we can't apply this trait to build a strong mechanism for all of us to have a STRONG VOICE in Japan?

[v_wrangler]

Malinis iyung papel... sa mga nakasalamuha ko at natulungan sa Yokohama, Chiba at Tokyo, iyung nakalagay na suweldo nila sa contract na ipinapasa sa immigration, iba sa natatanggap nila. Tapos noon, umabot na ng 5 taon, intracompany visa pa rin sila. Trabaho nila parang mga ordinary employee sa kompanya at masakit sa lahat, walang bayad ang OT nila
Kung dinadaya sila ng kompanya sa sweldo at iba kamo ang napagkasunduan, pwedeng pwede silang magreklamo nyan - kahit hapon ay di rin papayag ng ganyan. Kung intra-company ang visa - ibig sabihin nyan ay may opisina ang Japanese company sa Pilipinas at malamang na empleyado din sila doon. They are supposed to be here on an exchange. At dapat lang na walang extra special treatment. And I do not think there is a problem with doing work like any other employee. The problem starts when the same work is paid less or even less than the agreed compensation.

Regarding OT, this is a very difficult topic - kahit ang mga hapon ay nag-o-OT din even without an extra teyate. (kahit ako:(). It depends on how you view work. If you work based on time, then it could be a problem, but for some - its a disturbing but common part of the work culture. BTW, It's not a general practice dahil meron din naman nagbibigay ng OT pay. It this is a problem - check the rest of the Japanese employees if they are indeed paid overtime at kung pinoy lang ang di binabayaran. If this is the case, then I'd suggest aggrieved parties to hammer it out with the nearest Labor Standards Bureau.

Pakitingnan na rin, dahil sometimes kapag Inta-Company - iyong pay nila sa Pilipinas ay patuloy na dumarating. So in contrast - walang natatanggap na ganyan ang mga Japanese employees.

I'll try to comeback later and reply sa later part ng iyong post. Trabaho muna ako.

[v_wrangler]

The experiences and knowledge that someone can gain through out the training period are priceless.

You hit them right in the head. I couldn't agree more.

[PILIPINAS]

[QUOTE]Malinis iyung papel... sa mga nakasalamuha ko at natulungan sa Yokohama, Chiba at Tokyo, iyung nakalagay na suweldo nila sa contract na ipinapasa sa immigration, iba sa natatanggap nila. Tapos noon, umabot na ng 5 taon, intracompany visa pa rin sila. Trabaho nila parang mga ordinary employee sa kompanya at masakit sa lahat, walang bayad ang OT nila. Di lang "some" iyan, Dcat...napakarami nila. I am sure marami rito ang ganoon dahil mga IT engineer ang karamihan sa kanila. Ang trend pa ng mga outsourcing company na iyan, mag-recruit ng mga topnotcher na graduates at siyempre, attractive package kuno from Japan. Anong malay ng mga graduate natin kung anong klase ng "exploitation" ang gagawin sa kanila? Ooops baka may mag-intrepret muli sa isinulat ko kaysa tutukan iyung kaso.

Ka Tonyang, forgive me for asking, bakit sila nagtitiis at umaabt pa ng limang taon? Hindi ba sila p'wedeng umuwi na lang, after all, hindi naman nasusunod ang nakalagay sa contract nila? Or probably, mas maganda pa rin ang deal na nakukuha nila dito sa Japan, kaysa umuwi sila ng Pilipinas. The main issue here is, why are we prone to such exploitation?

Point is... how concerned are we to do more than discussing it? KJ ko no?
You've never been KJ. You're posts are worth reading.

Each one of us has a share of this unexpected humiliation both in public and in private. Pls admit it. Most of us don't deserve it. It is happening to us simply because we're Filipinos. Pardon me kung nilalahat ko na kasi isang lahi lang naman tayo.

Oh, yes I admit. Do we deserve such treatment? Well, sometimes, I think we do.

Because Filipinos have the capability to learn other cultures and that's very brave... how come we can't apply this trait to build a strong mechanism for all of us to have a STRONG VOICE in Japan?

Pasensya na Ka Tonyang, I don't have answers to all your issues. Ako ay isang hamak sa gaijin lamang, nakikitira at nakikisama sa bansang ito.
Going back sa main issue, like the entertainers here in Japan, may mga trainees din na naging successfull: karamihan sa mga nakasama kong trainees noon ay nakabili na ng house and lot somewhere in Cavite. Until now, they are all excited receiving work assignments here in Japan. And I am proud of them, kase sobrang tiwala sa kanila ng mga Japanese employers nila. Well, it is truly a give and take relationship. At syempre, mayroon din naman hindi sinuswerte: tulad ng nakalagay sa article. That is part of the risk.

[wes]

napag usapan na lang man din ang tungkol sa trainee.. i share ko na rin itong tungkol sa mga trainee na nakilala ko dito sa lugar ko....ang pagiging trainee nila is wala silang company sa pinas.. pero under sila sa agency...ang contract nila is 3 years pero trainee ang visa for one year pero na ine-extend lang ng parang broker nila every year for 3 years....actually sa tingin ko is hinde sila under sa trainee kasi nalaman ko na is trabaho talaga ang ginagawa nila... ang iba sa kanila is CNC operator may iba naman is kitsui yung tabaho nag gri-grind at yung iba is nasa tunawan ng bakal.... ang natatanggap nila sa isang buwan is 15 na lapad pero dapat may 75 hours and above na overtime.. tapos sa hinde kasama ang bahay , kuryente, tubig, gas at pagkain nila.... at nalaman ko pa na is nag placement fee pa pala sila sa agency nila sa pinas non refundable pa....ni hinde nila din alam kung paano kino-compute ang sahod nila .. sabi ko sa kanila is bakit hinde sila mag reklamo.. ang sagot po sa akin is kung magrereklamo sila is mababawi nga nila yung pagkukulang sa sahod pero madadamay naman daw yung company at may tendency rin daw na iti-tigil yung pag kuha ng trainee sa agency nila kaya paano na lang daw yung mga susunod pa daw na dapat dadating dito....sa tingin ko sa kanila is parang no choice sila kasi daw mahirap daw makipagsapalaran sa pinas at maliit daw ang sahod... kaya maski 3K(kitsui,kitanai.ki kken) ang trabaho nila tiis na lang daw... kasi yung iba sa kanila is pamilyado rin....


pero nag tataka lang talaga ako bakit trainee ang mga visa nila pero samantalang hinde naka categorize sa trainee ang ginagawa nila ....:confused: mga almost 50 ata sila na trainee dito sa ibat ibat company...

[Tonyang]

Pilipinas, Wes, tinatanggap na rin nila right? Kasi wala naman silang makitang ibang option na mas maganda o wala silang ibang paraan para makakita ng ibang option o natatakot silang maghanap ng ibang paraan? Lumiit ang mundo. Tanggap ang pagkatalo at pang-aabuso. Nasa nagdadala na lang kung kaya niyang tanggapin ang pang-aabuso.

Pag tinanong mo sila... "ano gusto ba ninyong ipaglaban?"... oops aatras sila at magdadalawang-isip. Kulang tayo sa choices kasi visa importante talaga pero MALI iyung ginagawa sa kanila.

Wes, may lumapit na sa aking ganyan ang sitwasyon. Broker ang humahawak. Yes trainee ang visa nila at karamihan sa kanila mechanical engineers pero nasa linyang ganyan ang trabaho. I am sure marami pa rito sa Timog na may nalalaman at tingnan mo na...natatakot mag-share at takot sa responsibilidad o matanong ng husto. Di ba kapatid?

May isang company rito na may subsidiary sa Pinas...nagpapadala ng trainee rito na walang contract na nagsasaad ng suweldo nila. So verbal lang ang usapan... per diem sila. Hi-tech! Nang minsan, nagkamali ang kompanyang ito sa pagpapasuweldo. Sumobra ng 2000 yen per diem. Nakatuklas pa siya mismo. Hehe! Dahil sa pagiging honest niya, nagkaroon siya ng problema. Tumagal ang naging pagkakamali kaya iyun, lumaki ang problema. Natakot sila at baka mawalan ng trabaho. Pero naki-compromise sa may-ari at natakot din ang may-ari kasi nalaman ng nasa labas ang mga patakaran niyang walang papel.

Pag iyung apektado ay ayaw maging biktimang magko-complain, talo ang laban at walang iko-complain. Ganoon talaga iyun. Pag isinuplong, may risk na dapat harapin. Pero sana may union tayo na pagbabalingan ng ganitong sitwasyon, di ba? Kasi iyung abusado, pag nag-iisa ka, malakas ang loob niyan. Pero pag nalaman niya na backup ka ng isang malaking grupo, takot lang niya.

Tingnan ninyo mga kapatid, Wes, kasi individual ang mga attack at talagang mahina ang dating ng laban kasi nag-iisa o halimbawa, kahit 2 o 10 sila na gustong magsalita, sa 50, 20% lang sila at maaaring iyung 1 o 2 lang sa kanila ang malakas talaga ang loob. Whereas kung may union na may 100-1000 miyembro at may legal entity sa Japan halimbawa bilang NPO, mas malakas ang laban. Alam ba ninyo iyung grupo ng mga English teacher dito? Pls see

http://www.generalunion.org/

Ang lakas niyan. Nag-umpisa lang sila sa iilan tapos ngayon, may boses sila. Ang mga "puti" pala marami ring abusong nararanasan akala natin, special lahat sa Japan. Di pala. Pero ang lakas ng union nila.

Mungkahi sana... What we could do is to partner with them pag nakabuo tayo ng sariling union. Sa umpisa sana, maging partner ng Migrant Workers Labor Union (Japanese ang mga ito) plus itong General Union na thousands ang miyembro. At basta may recognition o affiliation ito sa mga malalaking establishment at mga network, dadami ang resources ng union.

In the first place, isa lang armas ng Union ang welfare ng mga ka-miyembro...mas may role diyan iyung SAMAHAN na parang organisasyon. So what are we waiting for?

[v_wrangler]

http://www.generalunion.org/

Ang lakas niyan. Nag-umpisa lang sila sa iilan tapos ngayon, may boses sila. Ang mga "puti" pala marami ring abusong nararanasan akala natin, special lahat sa Japan. Di pala. Pero ang lakas ng union nila.

Mungkahi sana... What we could do is to partner with them pag nakabuo tayo ng sariling union. Sa umpisa sana, maging partner ng Migrant Workers Labor Union (Japanese ang mga ito) plus itong General Union na thousands ang miyembro. At basta may recognition o affiliation ito sa mga malalaking establishment at mga network, dadami ang resources ng union.

In the first place, isa lang armas ng Union ang welfare ng mga ka-miyembro...mas may role diyan iyung SAMAHAN na parang organisasyon. So what are we waiting for?
Tonyang, I personally think that UNIONISM is not the answer. Kahit hapones ay ayaw sa radicals. The Japanese people aren't confrontational and by subscribing to the idea of unionism to create a force, will only create a wrong impression and send a signal that foreign workers are probable disturbance to the peace and harmony of the working environment, sa madali't salita - troublemakers.

The solution IMHO is to understand the contract from the very start and try to maintain mutual understanding with the sponsors. Pinoys should learn to ask for what he deserve but in the process, learn to be non-confrontational, non-hysterical and civil. Use their culture to your advantage. Only when these efforts prove futile, should the problems be directed to the institutions that were created to deal with such troubles - The labor standards bureau is one of them. Do not reinvent the wheel. Save the energies.

[Tonyang]

"Tonyang, I personally think that UNIONISM is not the answer. Kahit hapones ay ayaw sa radicals. The Japanese people aren't confrontational and by subscribing to the idea of unionism to create a force, will only create a wrong impression and send a signal that foreign workers are probable disturbance to the peace and harmony of the working environment, sa madali't salita - troublemakers. "

This is a one-sided analysis, V_Wrangler. Ang idea ng unionism di para manggulo kundi para isaayos iyung abuso at maling sitwasyon.

"Only when these efforts prove futile, should the problems be directed to the institutions that were created to deal with such troubles - The labor standards bureau is one of them. Do not reinvent the wheel. Save the energies."

So sa ngayon, V_Wrangler... may direct answer tayo sa mga kababayan nating gustong magsumbong? Then after that, bahala na sila sa mangyayari sa kanilang helpless situation? So kanya-kanya tayo ng solusyon? Ganito na lang tulad ng dati o nangyayari?

[PILIPINAS]

[QUOTE]Wes, may lumapit na sa aking ganyan ang sitwasyon. Broker ang humahawak. Yes trainee ang visa nila at karamihan sa kanila mechanical engineers pero nasa linyang ganyan ang trabaho.
May isang company rito na may subsidiary sa Pinas...nagpapadala ng trainee rito na walang contract na nagsasaad ng suweldo nila. So verbal lang ang usapan...

Maraming mga engineers sa atin ang talagang underpaid. Kaya karamihan ay nagpupunta sa ibang bansa para magtrabaho.
Tungkol naman sa mga brokers, dapat paghuhulihin ang mga illegal recuiters na 'yan. They are the root of the problem. Most specially, 'yung mga pilipinong nagbebenta ng ating kababayan. Taking advantage of the poor. Dapat silang makulong.

In the first place, isa lang armas ng Union ang welfare ng mga ka-miyembro...mas may role diyan iyung SAMAHAN na parang organisasyon. So what are we waiting for?

About the union, ang daming Labor Union sa Pilipinas. At hanggang ngayon, marami pa rin sa ating mga kababayan ang underpaid. Is this really necessary?
Dito sa japan, wala naman labor union, pero walang underpaid na Japanese worker. Halos lahat, nakakabili ng kotse, kahit second-hand lang.

Ka Tonyang, kapag nagkaroon ng union ang mga trainees, maaapektohan ang mga legal trainees na sumasahod naman ng ayon sa kontrata. They are protected by their respective companies in the Philippines. Also, I don't think that any Japanese company is in favor of labor unions. Sa tingin ko lang, the root of the problem is the illegal recruiters. 'Yan ang dapat bigyan ng pansin at hulihin.

[wes]

good day sa lahat..... ka tonyang...ako is kung yan ang purpose ng for creating a union is sang ayon ako sa iyo... maganda ang pakay mo... pero ang problema naman kasi is kung tayo lang din pilipino ang member ng union na yan... ang magiging kawawa rin is ang mga trainee na pilipino....mauutak kasi yang mga hapon... kung magreklamo man ang pinoy.. bale ang mangyayari is tatanggalin yung pinoy kuha ng ibang lahi na hinde mareklamo ganon kadali lang diba?..... tiyak yan ang mangyayari... kaya mas maganda siguro ka tonyang kung ipapa-loob mo sa trainee union na yan is lahat ng lahi.. kasi lahat ng lahi dito na trainee is na-aabuso rin hinde lang pilipino......para sa ganon ang mangyari e di wala ng lusot talaga yang mga abusadong hapon... diba??.. yung akin is opinyon lang din po....:)

[SAMURAI X]

TOTOO YAN!!! AKO 15 DOLLARS PER DAY LANG TINATANGGAP KO AT WALANG BAYAN ANG OVERTYM...PAREHO LANG NAMAN ANG TRABAHO KO SA MGA HAPON DITO..PAMBIHIRA TALAGA..

[Tonyang]

SamuraiX, Wes, alam ninyo, kung walang nagku-complain na mga biktima, wala rin namang mangyayari right? So kahit nakikita nating mali ang mga pangyayari, wala ring mangyayari. Maaaring good side na nalalaman natin, preventive... for us at para sa mga kakilala natin bilang babala.

Wala ring problema kung lahat ng mga nationality kasali...infact iyung union na sinalihan ko welcome lahat ng mga worker sa Japan. Kung di pa tayo handa na magkaroon ng sariling union, puwede tayong sumali na lang sa existing union at payag naman sila na makabuo tayo ng isang sector for Filipinos. Then kasama pa natin ang ibang lahi roon.

What do you think? Ang pangalan ng union na ito ay Migrant Workers Labor Union na nasa Ikebukuro. Japanese ang mga organizer nito at lahat halos sila, mga biktima ng labor abuse sa ibang bansa kung mga Hapon o dito sa Japan kung mga foreigner.

[reon]

Sensya na, matagal akong naka-reply dito sa sariling kong thread. :)

Pero may mga kakilala ako dati, mas mababa ang suweldo nila kesa sa nakalagay sa kontrata na pinasa sa Immigration (mga ordinary company employees ito). And they didn't complain because the alternative is much worse: no work.

Ang hindi ko maintindihan dito sa article, kung hindi sang-ayon ang mga tao sa kanilang kontrata (o verbal agreement) puwede naman silang umuwi sa Pinas, no problem. Hindi tayo puwedeng mag-demand na "teka pareho lang ang ginagawa naming trabaho, dapat parehong suweldo." It just doesn't work that way (parehong Hapon nga, parehong trabaho, magkaiba ang suweldo).

Hindi ko alam ang sitwasyon sa buong Japan, pero sa mga nakita ko na na mga Pinoy at Chinese na trainees, maganda naman ang treatment sa kanila, hindi exaggerated na "3K" na gaya ng nasa article, wala silang ginagawang madumi o delikado o mahirap na trabaho na hindi ginagawa ng mga workers na Hapon, kumikita sila ng 6-7 lapad, hindi kinukuha ang mga passports nila, pero siyempre, tinatanong kung saan sila pupunta kung lalabas (marami ang visa violations) at walang bayad ang overtime. Hindi ko makita ang injustice dito.

If I feel my rights were violated by the company I work in I could always quit. I don't need to be exploited. We feel these trainees are being exploited because they get 50 thousand a month and no overtime pay. The pay is low because they're "trainees" not regular workers. If they don't like their salaries, they could always quit work and go home. (I don't mean this as disrespect.)

When we demand 100-thousand yen salaries for these trainees, that's the time Japanese companies won't hire any more trainees from the Philippines. Why would they, when they could always get cheaper labor from China (they don't need our vaunted English ability).

Or maybe I'm missing something here?

[SAMURAI X]

KA TONYANG,ANO NAMAN PO MAITUTULONG NG UNION NYO KUNG SAKALING SASALI AKO?? BAKA IT WILL JUST WORSEN THE SITUATION GAYA NG SINABI NI REON. THEY WILL NOT SEND TRAINEES TO JAPAN ANYMORE.

[Tonyang]

Bakit naman sila di na magpapadala ng trainees sa Japan kung maaayos naman ang kanilang pagpapatakbo at walang trainee nila ang nagiging biktima ng labor rights violation?

SamuraiX, iyang ganyang generalization sa aking palagay ay one-sided. Ang iniisip lang iyung kapakanan ng mga Hapon. Extreme case ang nangyayari sa mga trainee na pinag-uusapan natin... o sige nga, huwag nating gawan ng paraan, hayaan na lang nating magpatuloy ang nangyayari at ang mga Pinoy na apektado, maghanap na lang ng better jobs. Palagi bang may chance basta lumipat sa ibang work? Madaling isulat o sabihin pero ang actual, mas maraming takot na Pinoy na maapektuhan ang estado nila sa nagpadalang kompanya. Iilan lang ang malakas ang loob. Di ba? Ano sa tingin mo? Ok tanungin din natin si Reon.

Also, let's not generalize na pag di A magiging B dahil may C, D, E etc which means case to case basis ang treatment. Pag nag-generalize, madalas, nahihinto iyung analysis sa YES or NO lang. Di naman ganoon kadali ang analysis sa labor sector dahil maraming subsectors ito at sa bawat subsector, iba't iba iyung klase ng violation. Yes may nakararaming violation pero iyung biktima ba mismo, magiging cooperative till the end at makakayang i-give up ang trabaho nila para ipaglaban ang kanilang karapatan? Madalas ay NO but then again... iyung end nito, nasa final decision pa rin ng may katawan at big question mark palagi, bakit walang preventive measures?

Also, when you join any organization or any union, payo ko lang kapatid... huwag iyung mapapala agad ang titingnan natin bago sumali. Suriin natin iyung kabuuan ng pagsali both sa pagiging kasapi at ano ang maitutulong natin sa samahan. Laging two-sided iyan, kapatid.

Infact, what we can do as an output from this discussion is to list up the kinds of abuse and violations that we know and had experienced. That way, may pupuntahan ang discussion patungo sa preventive measures if not definite solutions. Isang tao lang, di kaya ito pero kung maraming tao ang magtutulungan, madali lang ang preventive measures at definite solutions. Bayanihan ika nga.

[d_southpaw]

Dito sa japan, wala naman labor union, pero walang underpaid na Japanese worker.

Dagdag lang ako ng impormasyon. Meron mga union dito sa Japan. My first company (which is a huge gaishikei) has a labor union that protects the employees. Ang members ng union ay yong mga hira-shain. Kanri shoku belongs to the mgmt/company side.

I have been to union meetings before, interestingly enough, one of the options that union discusses - in case the mgmt utterly reject the demands - is strike. Ang maganda lang kase rito, peaceful ang discussions between the union and the mgmt.

If I am not mistaken, kahit ang Toyota o yong ibang malalaking Japanese companies, may mga union din yan.

[PILIPINAS]

@d_southpaw

Thanks for the info. You are referring to "roudoukumiai". More on meetings, discussions and probably negotiations. Strike or demonstrations are not allowed.:confused:

[d_southpaw]

@d_southpaw

Thanks for the info. You are referring to "roudoukumiai". More on meetings, discussions and probably negotiations. Strike or demonstrations are not allowed.:confused:

Yes. 労働組合 = labor union

Not sure about the law, but I am certain that the union leaders put スト (their abbreviation of strike) as one of the options. I just gave the extreme example of the options of the unions. And yes, unions should be more on MEETINGS, DISCUSSIONS, NEGOTIATIONS and other better activities than strike or demos; for more positive effects like 1/ protecting the employees from exploitation 2/ to finding out the better or best agreement with the mgmt ......

Btw, I also have just seen a demonstration in Shinjuku, spearheaded or organized by foreigners. They had a gathering at a koen, had some speeches - decent Japanese speeches by foreigners - and they seemed to have staged a walk from there (up to where I didnt know) - guessing up to the tochou. There are policemen nearby, observing and looking after the demonstration. Not sure what was the purpose, but I guess it is about the labor condition of foreigners. If I am to base on what I actually saw, I guess demo is allowed, although there may be procedures to be followed to do it, ie: get proper permission

[SAMURAI X]

TONYANG,NATURAL LANG SIGURO SA ATIN NA MANIGURADO SA BAWAT HAKBANG NA GAGAWIN NATIN.HALIMBAWA, NAPATALSIK AKO SA TRABAHO DAHIL SUMALI AKO SA UNION NYO,EH DI SINO MAGPAPAKAIN SA PAMILYA KO??

SA PALAGAY KO,YONG MGA MALALAKAS ANG LOOD NA BITAWAN ANG TRABAHO NILA AY YONG MGA TAONG MAY SAPAT NA NAIPON NA KAYANG TUSTUSAN ANG PAMILYA NILA FOR A YEAR OR MORE.DI BA?

SO IN MY POINT OF VIEW,KAILANGAN TALAGA MANIGURADO NA MAY MAPUPUNTAHANG ALTERNATIVE BEFORE MASIRA ANG PANGALAN MO SA COMPANY NA PINAGTATRABAHUAN MO SA KASALUKUYAN.

CAN WE FIND ANOTHER SOLUTION HERE BY NOT SACRIFICING SOMETHING?

[v_wrangler]

The later part of this news (http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200606010105.html ) from this thread (http://www.timog.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447 0) explains the future approach of the Japanese government regarding the Technical training visas.

The Justice Ministry's panel also suggested abolishing the "technical training system,"

To SAMURAI, please refrain from typing in CAPS, refer to the FORUM RULES (http://www.timog.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365 ) just in case you haven't read it yet. Thank you for your cooperation.

[PILIPINAS]

@v_wrangler

I read the article and felt tongue-tied with disappointment. Bakit lahat kailangan madamay.....:(

[v_wrangler]

@v_wrangler

I read the article and felt tongue-tied with disappointment. Bakit lahat kailangan madamay.....:(
I'm sure both sides are at fault. Iyong mga companies na ang intensiyon lang ay makakuha ng cheap labor at ang mga brokers sa third-world countries tulad ng Pilipinas na nagpapadala ng manggagawa (na kunwari ay trainee) para kumita.

But one thing I am sure - tulad ng nakararami na naniniwala pa rin sa kahalagahan ng technology transfer, sa abot ng makakaya ay patuloy na ipagpupunyagi ang pagbibigay pagkakataon sa mga totoong trainees.

[PILIPINAS]

But one thing I am sure - tulad ng nakararami na naniniwala pa rin sa kahalagahan ng technology transfer, sa abot ng makakaya ay patuloy na ipagpupunyagi ang pagbibigay pagkakataon sa mga totoong trainees.

I surely hope so.:(

[eigooshieru]

Good day to everyone. Ang isa sa missing point, and an important point, na wala sa article na subject ng pinag-uusapan ay si Roger Bucio is a member of KAFIN o Kalipunan ng mga Filipinong Nagkakaisa at ang KAFIN ang nag-handle ng kaniyang kaso from the start to the victory. Just to say na yes, KAFIN is acting like the union that Tonyang is proposing to establish (that the Japan Times article missed to print despite she did her interviews in KAFIN Center at Kawaguchi, Saitama).

Another unfortunate thing is that in the same news article that came-out of the COMMUNITY of Japan Times, side by side with the story of trainee, Roger Bucio, titled "Its worth fighting for what's right", the interview with Rosanna Tapiru on the victory in the district court on Japanese nationality issues of Japanese-Filipino children as another painstaking work of KAFIN. KAFIN is the back burner of this case together with Japanese-Filipino Children Network and Japanese lawyers. Rossana Tapiru is the Chairperson of KAFIN Tokyo Chapter.

Again, yes, we already have a fighting union if you wish to call it that way and that is KAFIN. But need to say is that KAFIN who did have double victory last March 2006 (on Nationality issue of Japanese-Filipino children and the case of Roger Bucio who will be paid by the company of around 1.6 million yen for compensation) is not only for workers rights. KAFIN is also the shelter of battered Filipino wives, Japanese-Filipino children and youth in distress, promotion of the politically correct Philippine culture and so on.

Talagang kailangan nating magkaisa pero bakit ba kailangan pa natin palaging magtayo ng bagong organisasyon o union samantalang meron na naman tayong isa kagaya ng KAFIN na pitong taon na sa labanan para sa kagalingan at karapatn ng mga Filipino sa Japan?

Sensya na po kayo kung di ko na mapigilan na nag-plug ng aking prestigious and victorious Filpino organization named KAFIN kasi frustrated ako sa article report ng Japan Times na parang sinensor ang KAFIN.

[Tonyang]

Salamat sa sharing, Eigooshieru...puwede ng malaman kabayan kung NPO na ang classification ng KAFIN o saan ito affiliated? Marami rin akong alam na mga NGO o grupo na pareho ang ginagawa sa KAFIN na parang union ang dating pero di ko alam kung bakit ang dami at di magkaisa0. Dahil kaya iyan sa affiliation o funding source? Nasa iba't ibang prefecture ang mga ito. Nagiging takbuhan ang mga mga ito kung may extreme cases karaniwan. Bakit nga ba mahirap sa mga ganitong klase ng samahan ang suporta mula sa gobyerno ng Japan? Bakit walang umbrella organization o network ang mga ganitong samahan? Delikado dahil sa paternal organization na humahawak o sponsor ng bawat isa kabayan? Kung may isang network tayo, mas epektibo. Tapos, i-formalize iyung Labor Union sana.

Ang embassy nagbuo ng isang NGO network pero di nag-materialize.

Iyung punto ni Vwrangler, tama naman... pero iyung extreme case at prevention, mahalaga kaya di natin dapat iwanan at kalimutan na lang ang problema. Kasi kung susundan natin ang suggestion ni Vwrangler, parang pinag-usapan lang natin at pinadaan lang natin ang problema sa tingin ko. Kung ok lang kay kabayang VWrangler, alamin natin ang extent o lalim ng problema case by case bago tayo mag-generalize ng solusyon kung puwede ngang ma-generalize. Tungkol sa technology transfer, reality ba iyan kabayan o kathang-isip lamang?

Pilipinas, damay-damay, yes automatic...kasi mas maraming ganoon ang nangyayari at iilan ang special case.

Ngapala, kabayang Eigooshieru, di ka pa ba sanay sa community na ang may pinakamahirap na nagampanan sa bawat tagumpay ay hindi naman kinikilala talaga dahil pag nangyari na, wala nang utang na loob na umiiral ngayon? Siguro sa 1000 kaso na matutulungan, 1 lang ang babalik at magpapasalamat ngayon.

[PILIPINAS]

Eigooshieru, thank you for sharing your insights. This is my first time to hear your organization KAFIN. Maybe, you should talk about it more often here at Timog. Of course, only at your most convenient time. Specially, for cases concerning the Filipinos living in Japan. More power.

Tungkol sa technology transfer, reality ba iyan kabayan o kathang-isip lamang?
Pilipinas, damay-damay, yes automatic...kasi mas maraming ganoon ang nangyayari at iilan ang special case.

Ka Tonyang, I feel the need to react on your comment. Maybe, case to case basis. But on our batch, technologies from Japan were actually transferred. The first batch of trainees, were pioneers. Start-up operation ang trabaho nila. Sila ang gumawa ng very first production sa Philippines, of course with the support of some Japanese staff. I belong to the third batch. Operation of equipments and maintenance of facilities ang trabaho namin. Marami kaming natutunan, things that we never learned from college. As of now, mga Filipino managers na ang humahawak ng planta. Unlike 'nung time namin, puro Japanese managers pa noon.
Pero syempre, case to case basis. Nakakalungkot isipin na ang salitang trainee, has two definitions/purposes. One is for technology transfer, and the other one is cheap labor.

[v_wrangler]

Eigooshieru, thank you for sharing your insights. This is my first time to hear your organization KAFIN. Maybe, you should talk about it more often here at Timog. Of course, only at your most convenient time. Specially, for cases concerning the Filipinos living in Japan. More power.

Hi Tonyang, I'd like to make this fast and at the same time echo Pilipinas' sentiments. Ewan ko lang sa iba but I myself was a product of the Technical Training system. Noong kapanahunan ko - that was about fourteen years ago. Hindi ako nakakarinig ng mga brokers o mga nagpapadala ng trainee na wala namang branch sa Japan. Ang alam ko lang noon ay mga Japanese Companies sa Pilipinas na nais ipakita ang sistema ng pagtratrabaho sa kanilang branches sa Japan.

Hindi naman sa nag-gegeneralize ako Tonyang, As a matter of fact ang lahat ng suhestyon ko ay base sa aking sariling experiyensa. I'm still all out for an informal mediation. Companies do not want to make a loud fuss out of all the troubles before them. Kung sa simula pa lang ay mapapagusapan na ng mahinahon, hindi confrontational - I'm sure it will be best for both parties. Regarding groups. I am also amazed at the creativity of pinoys around the world. Anggaling ng pinoy sa acronyms. Kidding aside, Pinoy lang yata ang ganyan kahit saang lupalop tayo magpunta. Laging me grupo ng kung ano-ano. I do not know if it has to do with pinoys tribal grouping instincts - (but with due respect to some of them of course), this culture of groupings IMHO projects a picture of disunity. Isa pa, and this is my own way of dealing with my own individuality - Those of us who have long standing permanent love affair with Japan would find it difficult to assimilate kung sa bawat kibo ay kailangan natin i-declare ang ating national affinities or biases. Be it at work, with our peers or families.

Going back sa topic ng unionism na suhestyon mo, again let us not reinvent the sytem, use what they use, and when we do - remove whats hade or urusai. Stuff like this - only emphasize the big diffences we have from them rather than amplify our commonness. If we dont want some negatives thrown at our pinoy faces then for the sake of humanity lets avoid calling attention to ourselves. <-- This works for almost everything in our expat lives.

When we solve our differences, lets claim our rights in utmost humility. Non-confrontational at tahimik. Thats the best approach in my opinion. I'm sure you know na ang stressed na pinoy ay hyper-active, lalo na pag feel niya na sya ay agrabyado (feel pa lang ha, di pa sigurado), nagiging hysteric. Dagdagan mo pa yan pag feel nya na meron syang ka-kosa (multiply the tapang a hundred times). Kapag sa simula at kapag ganyan ang dating - I'm sure turn off na agad ang hapon na kausap. And I don't think both parties would arrive at an agreeable solution. Ang pinoy mindset ay hati sa panalo at talo. We think winning is everything - some people would even resort to the unimaginable just to win. But what happens sa talo? He ends up there with a burning grudge (di na ako kukuha ng pinoy trainee!) So in my own experiences in mediating and dealing with cultures in conflicts - the best approach is to make both parties win. Mutual benefits.

Anyways, on your next post, lets talk about the simula - Talakayin muna natin kung papaano sila nakapunta sa Japan. I'm sure - its a can of worms noon pa man.

OK, yan muna today at balik trabaho muna ako.

Sincerest Regards,

[PILIPINAS]

We think winning is everything - some people would even resort to the unimaginable just to win. But what happens sa talo? He ends up there with a burning grudge (di na ako kukuha ng pinoy trainee!) So in my own experiences in mediating and dealing with cultures in conflicts - the best approach is to make both parties win. Mutual benefits.
Anyways, on your next post, lets talk about the simula - Talakayin muna natin kung papaano sila nakapunta sa Japan. I'm sure - its a can of worms noon pa man.


Since we are talking about the trainees, there is another issue that i wish to tackle. Huwag sanang sasama ang loob ng mga tatamaan.
What can you say about those Filipinos sent here in Japan as "real and legal" technical trainees, that escaped and did not go back to the Philippines, before the end of their contract? Ano kaya ang reaction ng mga host Japanese companies nila, after investing money to them, ito pa ang sinukle nila? These cases actually happened. Fortunately, not on my company but to another neighboring companies.:confused:

[Tonyang]

Pilipinas, VWrangler, nag-umpisa at mga sumali sa diskusyong ito, ididiretso ko na iyung concerns natin sa umpisa para maintindihan ang mga nangyayari. Saan ang mali at mga dapat matulungan. Para di general lagi ang diskusyon natin.

Ok iyung punto ni VWrangler,

"... Talakayin muna natin kung papaano sila nakapunta sa Japan. I'm sure - its a can of worms noon pa man."

I am just one of those who listened, tried to help and concerned to meet cases up to now. Bakit iyung iba di nagkakaproblema...ba kit nagkaproblema ang mga may problema. Let's trace the roots of the problem. Ilista natin.

Paano sila nakapunta sa Japan?

1. Newly grad sila at working sa isang Japanese subsidiary company sa Pinas at ipinadala sila rito sa headquarters bilang trainees. Ang problema, di nila alam iyung standard of living sa Japan at gusto lang nilang makarating sa Japan. Kaya kahit lingid sa kanilang kaalaman na napakababa ng kanilang allowance dahil may pabahay, buo ang kanilang suweldo sa Pinas pero kanila ang pagkain at iba pang utilities. Ngayon, may mga ganitong sitwasyon ba tayong kinakaharap na nalalaman natin at may abusong na-experience?