Decline in English proficiency in Philippines threatens economy

[Raiden]

by Eunice Fernando and Sarah Azucena

MANILA (AFP) - For decades the troubled Philippines economy has been able to bank on one key asset in attracting foreign investors -- proficiency in the English language.

But even that lifeline in this poor country appears a tenuous one as fears surface over a sharp decline in English compounded by falling school standards and a mass exodus of linguistically skilled professionals.

There is plenty of blame to go around, with Gray faulting cellphone text messaging and the popularity of foreign soap operas dubbed into the Filipino language.

"There has been a steady decline from the time when the Philippines took pride in itself as one of the best English-speaking nations," Neil Perez an English and Literature lecturer at Manila's University of Santo Tomas acknowledged.

Perez blames the decline on the influence of pop culture and domestic media, where the dominant language is "taglish", a combination of Tagalog and English.

"The common language of everybody is this hybrid language taglish," he said. "It has become the standard rather than the exception.
"The kind of things that we see on television promotes the bastardization of the English language. We accept what the media feeds us," Perez added. Read the whole story here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060522/lf_afp/philippineseducation _060522151926)

So, Is English really that significant to our country's economic well-being?

The Philippines used to be adept in the English language decades ago. So why is our country still in bad shape? Would our country be in worse shape today, if we had not been skillful in the universal language before?

How come Japan, a country which is not skilled in the English language is such an economic powerhouse? FYI, Japan has the second largest economy in the world.

If you ask me, I think being proficient in English gives us an edge over the others when it comes to attracting foreigners to invest in our country, but we shouldn't rely on foreign investments too much. We should pay close attention to innovation in the technology, banking and business sectors as well. The Philippines should make education its number one priority, so we can produce quality professionals who could innovate in those fields.

This is how I see it. We may be more proficient in English than the Japanese, but the Japanese are more ambitious and more determined than us. Please correct me, if you think I'm wrong. :)

[NemoySpruce]

I think you are wrong. I dont think ambition and determination has anything to do with it. I think the reason we are behind the Japanese is that they have been at it for a long time now. They were already functioning like a country during the time of Christ. The US was started by migrants from Europe, where countries existed years before Christ... more than 2000 years ago. These people have been playing the game for quite a while now. Tayong pinoy? kelan lang tayo naging bansa, a bit over one hundred years?... theory ko lang din. I could be wrong.

[mylfer919mdo]

I think you are wrong. I dont think ambition and determination has anything to do with it. I think the reason we are behind the Japanese is that they have been at it for a long time now. They were already functioning like a country during the time of Christ. The US was started by migrants from Europe, where countries existed years before Christ... more than 2000 years ago. These people have been playing the game for quite a while now. Tayong pinoy? kelan lang tayo naging bansa, a bit over one hundred years?... theory ko lang din. I could be wrong.

Well, you may have a point in that. But I think the reason we are behind is due to lack of State nationalism.

[Raiden]

@ NemoySpruce

Thanks for sharing your insight, NemoySpruce. :)
So, if longevity of a civilization is the criterion for advancement, then how come Japan, which started to function like a country in the 8th century, is more advanced than some nations in Europe which had a civilization dating back during the reign of the Roman Empire?

History taught us that empires come and go, but the ambition and determination of a people is what decides their place in this world.

@mylfer919mdo

Yes, I noticed that too. Sad, isn't it? :(

[NemoySpruce]

@ NemoySpruce
Thanks for your sharing your insight, NemoySpruce. :)
So, if longevity of a civilization is the criterion for advancement, then how come Japan, which started to function like a country in the 8th century, is more advanced than some nations in Europe which had a civilization dating back during the reign of the Roman Empire?


good question. I dont have answers for that, only theories. I guess civilizations, like humans, have life cycles. Rome was a great empire, but eventually it got too old, and died out. Egypt was also a great nation, but eventually got too old and withered out... so we can think of countries like individual people. US is like a man in his prime, 35 years old. Japan a bit older, say 40. UK, Spain, Italy are old men, around 60 yrs old. china is like a kung fu master, old and grey with a beard that touches the floor, but can still kick butt. Philippines is a 4 yr old snotty nosed little kid with parasites in his tummy.

[Raiden]

Philippines is a 4 yr old snotty nosed little kid with parasites in his tummy.

:biglaugh: Dang man that's funny! But quite true, nonetheless. Good analogy.

We sure have our youth, but are we driven enough to take full advantage of our potential?
That is the question. I guess it's up to us to answer that, not through our words, but through our deeds and achievements, and the way we'd cleanse ourselves of those parasites in our tummy.

[NemoySpruce]

:biglaugh: Dang man that's funny! But quite true, nonetheless. Good analogy.

We sure have our youth, but are we driven enough to take full advantage of our potential?
That is the question. I guess it's up to us to answer that, not through our words, but through our deeds and achievements, and the way we'd cleanse ourselves of those parasites in our tummy.

agreed. We are in bad shape, but we have the potential to become something the world has never seen before. We just need to find that 'drive' you mentioned. Im confident we will find it eventually, I just hope it happens within our lifetimes.

[Raiden]

agreed. We are in bad shape, but we have the potential to become something the world has never seen before. We just need to find that 'drive' you mentioned. Im confident we will find it eventually, I just hope it happens within our lifetimes.

I hope so as well.

Aw! schucks man, we finally agreed on somethin' hehehehehe :D

Nice chattin' with you. :)

[NemoySpruce]

I hope so as well.

Aw! schucks man, we finally agreed on somethin' hehehehehe :D



omoshiroii neh...

Just to return the thread to your topic. The article is a good example of why we Filipinos are so screwed up. Our leaders think with their wallets.

After WW2, we were known as the only english speaking country in Asia because we were saturated by American culture. Our TV shows, movies, advertisements, books, schools were all in english.

Government became 'concerned' because we were becoming too dependent on US culture and we were forgeting our own culture. We kicked out the US bases, and encouraged the use of the Filipino language. Some TV networks followed suit by translating foreign shows into tagalog. Sesame street was replaced by Batibot.

Effect? s tngin ko i n xperience n natin ang efek, ano kya ang ggwin natin ngaun ... our language evolved.

And now these politicians are suggesting we all speak english again... brilliant. I think this idea is total crap. We need solid education. Let the language be. We should be allowed to use any language we feel comfortable with. If you plan to work in Japan, learn nihongo. If you plan to work in Hong Kong, learn chinese... but you should be able to do your job better than the chinese, Indian or american. That will save the economy... magaling ka nga mag ingles kaya mo bang i-trobol shoot ang problema sa network? Bakit pinipilit ni politiko na mag-aral tayo ng ingles? kase, sabi ni mr Business owner, na nag invest sa call centers, ay kailangan natin ng english speaking labor force. At kung gagamitin natin ang pera ng taong bayan sa pag train ng lobor force na ito.. eh makaka tipid tayo, at may cut ka jan, mr politician.

[pointblank]

Hello guys,

The problem is, I believe, not the language per se, but rather the level at which we use the language.

We can either go English or Filipino - what is important is that we speak (read & write as well) it properly. Instead, we have deteriorated to the point where Pinoys can use NEITHER English nor Filipino correctly. It is not anymore a choice-of-language issue but a lack-of-brains problem.

I am, in fact, willing to accomodate Taglish if that is the means by which ideas are most effectively communicated. Alam mo naman kung "tama" yung pagka-Taglish. You either imbed Tagalog words into a correctly constructed English sentence or vice-versa. Hindi naman nakaka-irritate nang sobra. (That previous sentence is an example.) What I cannot stand is an obviously wrong sentence like: "People doesn't making sunod the rules." Ang problema, hindi yung Taglish kundi hindi talaga marunong mag-English yung speaker. Sa totoo lang, ang dami niyan sa Timog.

I need not further mention the evils of text-speak. Pwede ba, sa mga mahilig mag-text spelling kahit naman ordinary keyboard ang gamit ninyo - hindi kayo sosyal o fashionable, just simply nakaka-irita.

Isa ko pang pet peeve: mga balu-baluktot mag-English, pero ang hilig gumamit ng slang devices like: 'cuz or sumthin'. Really now, you are not fooling anybody into thinking you were born in the States or went to a swank exclusive school. Trying hard social climber from the probinsiya lang ang labas mo! Before attempting to sound cool, mag-review muna kayo ng basic English grammar para di nakakahiya!

Sorry for ranting & raving on like this, but I do think that it is these usages of language that have contributed significantly to the deterioration of our educational system.

[brownman]

Hello guys,

The problem is, I believe, not the language per se, but rather the level at which we use the language.

We can either go English or Filipino - what is important is that we speak (read & write as well) it properly. Instead, we have deteriorated to the point where Pinoys can use NEITHER English nor Filipino correctly. It is not anymore a choice-of-language issue but a lack-of-brains problem.

I am, in fact, willing to accomodate Taglish if that is the means by which ideas are most effectively communicated. Alam mo naman kung "tama" yung pagka-Taglish. You either imbed Tagalog words into a correctly constructed English sentence or vice-versa. Hindi naman nakaka-irritate nang sobra. (That previous sentence is an example.) What I cannot stand is an obviously wrong sentence like: "People doesn't making sunod the rules." Ang problema, hindi yung Taglish kundi hindi talaga marunong mag-English yung speaker. Sa totoo lang, ang dami niyan sa Timog.

I need not further mention the evils of text-speak. Pwede ba, sa mga mahilig mag-text spelling kahit naman ordinary keyboard ang gamit ninyo - hindi kayo sosyal o fashionable, just simply nakaka-irita.

Isa ko pang pet peeve: mga balu-baluktot mag-English, pero ang hilig gumamit ng slang devices like: 'cuz or sumthin'. Really now, you are not fooling anybody into thinking you were born in the States or went to a swank exclusive school. Trying hard social climber from the probinsiya lang ang labas mo! Before attempting to sound cool, mag-review muna kayo ng basic English grammar para di nakakahiya!

Sorry for ranting & raving on like this, but I do think that it is these usages of language that have contributed significantly to the deterioration of our educational system.

pointblank, why are you like that ba? you made tusok from my dibdib and into my puso then it went tagos sa back ko. you're so prangka ha, is dat why your handle is pointblank?:D peace

Seriously, i agree with some of the things that you have said. Pinoys do make a lot of mistakes when using English or Tagalog. Sa Tagalog, a common mistake that i have noticed is the use of "ng" and "nang". They sound the same but they aren't used in the same way. Which is sad. Just think, this is OUR language, this is our turf.:rolleyes: . Andami pa, this is just one classic example.

In my own humble opinion, i think Filipinos are also concious of what the person right next to them will think/say when/if they speak in english. In fact, i have a friend who got into trouble because he was talking in english to one of his colleagues on his way home. It was late at night and it just so happened that the jeep/bus that he was on had some drunk English-speakin' hatin' AHoles. He was actually lucky that these pricks were so drunk that they weren't able to chase him. I would be a hypocrite to say that i haven't done the same. Well, not in terms of wanting to beat someone into a pulp. Minsan nga kasi, nakakairita talaga lalo na kung obvious na inaartehan na lang para maging "cute". Kaya ang tendency talaga eh mag-tatagalog na lang para safe, para hindi masabihan ng "maarte" or "feeling" ng katabi. I also think that lack of practice also has a great contribution to the deterioration of English in the Philippines.

[PILIPINAS]

If you ask me, I think being proficient in English gives us an edge over the others when it comes to attracting foreigners to invest in our country, but we shouldn't rely on foreign investments too much. We should pay close attention to innovation in the technology, banking and business sectors as well. The Philippines should make education its number one priority, so we can produce quality professionals who could innovate in those fields.


Yes, I agree with you on this matter. But just like what mylfer919mdo said, we truly lack State Nationalism. Lahat ng magagaling nating kababayan ay lumalabas ng bansa. Tulad na lang ng mga members dito sa Timog. Ang hirap kase ng buhay sa atin. We tend to look for an exodus to a foreign land. Pero sana nga, we shouldn't depend on foreign investors to run our business sector. Sana, mas dumami at maging successful ang mga companies, established and owned by Filipinos. Ika nga, tangkilikin and sariling atin.
Ooops medyo OT and reply ko.

Regarding the declining English proficiency in the Philippines, it makes me feel dreary thinking about it. But come to think of it, the English Language is a way of communication. And the main purpose of communication, it is to express oneself without being misunderstood by the recipient. Whether or not there are flaws in the grammar, basta nagkakaintindihan kayo, okay naman di ba?:confused:

[mahalkita]

Nakakalungkot mang isipin, pero sa tingin ko bumaba na talaga ang English proficiency natin. Kahit yung mga umaalis ng bansa, hindi ibig sabihin ay magaling sila mag-English.
Maraming kompanya sa Pilipinas kahit sa abroad nirerequire mag speech lessons yung mga employees nila. So anong ibig sabihin nun, yung level ng proficiency natin hindi pa sapat. At isa nga sa dahilan nga ay ang pagkakaroon natin ng tinatawag na Taglish.

[puting tainga]

People in USA, the strongest country in the world, use English.
Most Americans speak only in English, except 1st or 2nd generation immigrants, or professional linguists or translators.

Romans spoke in Roman (Latin), while countries governed by it were forced to use several languages at the same time.
If you watch The Passion of Christ, people can speak in several languages in Jerusalem.

When Korea was colony of Japan, Japan built many schools and taught things in Japanese.
Some say that’s the foundation of development of Korea after it was freed.
This humiliating memory is the bases of anti-kanji movement (use of Korean letters only) in Korea after the war, though (interestingly) the kanji itself was invented and still used in China.

You know what I am about to say.
Use of different language of a bigger nation is manifestation of dependence or weakness of that country.
An independent country has its own special language, and enough material is provided in that language so that ordinary people don’t have to study hard to acquire another language.

To me, the report means this country is getting more independent and enough material is sufficiently provided.

PS
How come Wikipedia Tagalog has only 2,783 articles as of today, whereas other languages have tens of thousands?

[NemoySpruce]

PS
How come Wikipedia Tagalog has only 2,783 articles as of today, whereas other languages have tens of thousands?

according to this page:
http://www.internetworldsta ts.com/stats3.htm

Philippines only has 2 million users, probably not all of them speak tagalog.

if you compare to US, (http://www.internetworldsta ts.com/stats2.htm)

US has 205,326,680 users.

mas marami sila. :D

[Paul]

How come Wikipedia Tagalog has only 2,783 articles as of today, whereas other languages have tens of thousands?

Maybe because people who are capable of writing in proper Tagalog is as rare as the Tamaraw (http://www.animalinfo.org/species/artiperi/bubamind.htm)?

Back to the topic:

The decline in English proficiency is very evident even here in TF. No wait, let me rephrase that. The decline in language proficiency is very evident here in TF. It doesn't matter whether it's English, Nihonggo, Tagalog or Cebuano.

Sorry for being blunt, but the fact is very few people here can write properly. Writing has never been one of our best skills. We were never trained to write well at school, be it in English or Filipino. Filipinos are talkers. We love to talk. We love to talk so much, we write the way we talk. If it had been the other way around, a lot more of us would be speaking properly, whether in English, Filipino, Cebuano or whatever language we choose (note: text speak is not a language, it's a bastardization of a language).

Heck, the article itself is evidence enough of the decline in our english proficiency. (Don't they have editors?)

"That is a reflected in the fast deterioration of our education standards both in public and private schools."

[docomo]

(note: text speak is not a language, it's a bastardization of a language).



true..so true .... make this line a sticky reminder for everybody :)

[Raiden]

I think one of the problems concerning our ineptitude to write properly, whether it's in English or Filipino, is that we always seem to second-guess every step we take and every decision we make. English or Filipino, either way it is imperative for us to be committed to the choices we make, otherwise we would be going nowhere.

Hey! Wait a minute. :eek: That's the keyword, commitment is the keyword.
Commitment to excellence. Okay, those are three words. :D

[NemoySpruce]

I feel it should be mentioned that americans speak terrible english. Did you ever hear Bush say 'nuclear'? he says it like 'nukeler' ... but its fine because its his culture. Americans have their own culture, therefore their own way of speaking. I have nothing against text speak, I can read it fine. I do agree with the owners of this forum though, It should be avoided when posting here. This site is supposed to have important information about Filipinos in Japan, and in fact if you google 'Filipinos in Japan' this site comes up first. Everytime you post, keep in mind that the whole world will be reading it.

[PILIPINAS]

Filipinos are talkers. We love to talk. We love to talk so much, we write the way we talk. If it had been the other way around, a lot more of us would be speaking properly, whether in English, Filipino, Cebuano or whatever language we choose.

Guilty as charged. Gomen ne...:p

May I also add,we all know very well that not all Filipinos are degree holders. In fact, only a handful of us are college graduates. Not all of us came from exclusive highschools, where the teaching standard of English is very high compared to public schools. Even before and until now, the majority of the Filipino people could not speak the English language fluently.

[Tonyang]

Thanks for starting this thread.

My personal opinion... three important points that I had picked up from this thread and based on my own observations for our country to succeed through better communication approaches/strategies:

1. establishing effective means to raise consciousness, influence other Filipinos to initiate contributing moves and being committed to do all these to help the country

2. being too dependent on FIs (foreign investments) is not good at all - because FIs come to the country because of the English capability of many Filipinos - OFIs (Overseas Filipino Investors) could pool their $ or \ too and such pooled amount is almost the same as that of the FIs.

3. we need good leaders and the most qualified of them all are the iskolar ng bayan because they have the kind of intelligence to analyze and research ways on how to make communication means effective and usable by many

Thus, this is a continuous call for all "iskolar ng bayan" to help achieve better communication skills for Filipinos because scholars have the highest credentials and qualifications to teach and lead the country... not necessarily English because the key to our success is understanding (key to working together) to develop mechanisms that will rebuild our country.

[morena]

the article written by Eunice Fernando and Sarah Azucena entitled DECLINE in english proficiency in the philippines THREATENS ECONOMY.... was a little absurd in itself... global economic relationships were been based on profits and advancements of either of the two countries concording to tie-up history has proven... lack of english proficiency would literally hinder the communication aspect of discussions of terms of investments and etc.... philippine economy ahhhhh yeah... philippine economy + forieign investments + multinational companies + dollars = BOOST to economy... ironically in this aspect where we all are getting the logic..... thats why we are too much dependent and afraid of not being a proficient speaker of ENGLISH.... but THE REAL BOOST to our economy is having development WITHIN our very own country excluding any other forms of foreign assistance...

if we or if our so called economic experts could only have the proficiency of our very native language to integrate deeply to every most interior barrios and indigenous people knowing their needs and what will be the most fitting economical situations for them to advance i guess that would be the best...

let us start from there... no private schools... no taglish.... no debates... just be us... and know the real needs of our country... from there we can grow...

[TR250]

Siguro dahil makaluma ako ay inis din ako sa bastardized Tag-lish at salitang pasosyal. Hirap din akong magbasa ng text language pero dahil konting-konti lang ang kakilala kong kabayan ay konti lang ang naririnig ko at nababasang mga ganito. Nung pumasyal ako sa Pinas dati at nung kausap ko ang mga kapatid ko ay nagulat ako sa style ng pagsasalita nila na Tag-lish at parang laseng. Nagalit ako pero kinalabit ako ng kamaganak at sinabing relax lang dumaan karin sa pagiging teenager diba (yun nga lang ay malalim akong mag Tagalog at di ako nakagamit ng Tag-lish dahil puros mga lolo ang mga kasama ko nuon).

Bagamat sa tingin ko ay bumababa ang level ng abilidad ng linguahe ng karamihan sa mga kabataan ay hindi ko rin matitiyak kung mali o tama ako. Siguro nga kapag mahusay ang mga kabataan sa linguaheng Ingles ay mas makakatulong ito sa ekonomiya pero hindi pa rin ito magiging basehan kung talagang uunlad ang Pilipinas o hindi.

Ito ay base lang sa aking mga naranasan na wala naman akong masyadong nagiging problema sa kakulangan ko sa pag i-Ingles. Galing ako sa private school (DBTC) at mahigpit ang pagtuturo sa amin ng Ingles kaya lang ay isinilang akong bobo at tamad at duon parati sa row 4 na malapit sa basurahan. Nakakatawa nga dahil barok akong mag Ingles pero karamihan sa pinakamalapit sa akin ay mga puti. Yung best friend at buyer ko ay Canadian. Yung kuya-kuyahan ko ay taga NZ. Yung isa ring kadikit ko ay Australian. Meroon ding mga Englishmen. Isang katerbang puti ang pumupunta sa bahay. Karamihan ay galing sa Europe kaya mas lalung gumugulo ang luob ng utak ko dahil iba ang accent at iba rin ang mga ginagamit na mga salita. Marami rin galing sa ibang bansa tulad ng taga Middle East, India, Peru, Korean, Africans, etc. at pag nag i-Ingles kami ay masakit pang pakinggan kaysa sa basag na plaka. Para kaming samahan ng Puti, Itim, Pula, Dilaw, at brown... Karamihan sa amin ay normal ang bastos na linguahe pero OK pa rin. Marami rin ang napakadiretso at mga pro teachers at mga collage grads na parang ala "Webster" ang nilalaman. Ilan na rin ang naging nobya kong puti (German, US, Canadian, Russian, NZ, Australian) OK rin maski bobo akong mag Ingles. Dahil sa negosyo ko ay puros ka e-mail ko at kausap ay Ingles ang gamit. Minsan ay hindi talaga kami magkaintindihan lalu nat pag old fashioned English ang ginagamit at grabe ang accent pero OK pa rin. Dinadahan-dahan na lang namin ang pag-uusap at pag di talaga magkaintindihan ay sulat sa e-mail na lang.

Dito ko napatunayan na hindi naman pala kailangang maging mahusay ako sa pag i-Ingles at konting basic English lang ay OK na. Ang pinakaimportante lang ay ang magkaintindihan at hindi kailangan ang "teachers degree" para makipag-usap o makipag negosyo. Ang kailangan lang ay " I have the stuffs they want, my price is good, I can deliver, I'm a pro in the biz, and I dont fk around". Halata naman ng kausap kung puros BS at hangin lang ang laman ng kausap. Basta alam nilang alam mo ang mga laman ng sinasabi mo, diretso at hindi ka tatanga-tanga, hindi ka nila pwedeng gaguhin, may sense o ibig sabihin ang mga binitiwang mong salita na maski balubaluktot pa man ay siguradong OK ang kakakabasan ng pag-uusap. Para sa akin na ano mang linguahe ay dapat manggagaling mula sa puso. Its not the style used in saying it but the contents and the amount of sincerity of the person talking. Its the "feeling" na tulad nga ng sinabi ng nobya kong Kiwi na "shut-up and fk, you talk too much"... Too much talk and less action can make friends dull...

[ayumi]

@TR250,
correct ka dyan!..dati,wala akong confidence makipagbusiness deal sa kadahilanan na minsan kailangan na fluent at me dating ang English mo sa ibang ka-business partner mo,sa PILIPINAS.siguro, hindi sa lahat pero mostly me advantage sa atin kapag magaling ka sa English,idagdag pa ang executive look.Pero nagtataka lang ako,sa klase ng hanapbuhay ko na ang kausap ay ibang lahi?kahit bali-baliktad pa ang English mo,basta nagkaka intindihan kayo sa pinag-usapan nyo,kahit sinong milyonaryo pa yang kausap mo,wala namang problema so far,in my experience.Ang pinaka-importante sa palagay ko ay hindi language kundi ang 1.pagtupad sa pangako at sa mga sinasabi 2.pagbayad ng eksaktong halaga at tamang oras 3.mabuting pakikipagkapwa sa lahat ng kausap (isipin ang kabilang side maliban sa side mo) 4.paggalang sa paniwala nila and vice versa at maraming pang iba,
of course,good English is also important maybe in the Philippines or U.S.,Hongkong and in other English speaking country but how about countries like Japan,China,Korea,Ta iwan,Italy and other countries na hindi magaling sa English pero umaasenso ng husto ?kailangan ba talaga sa Pilipinas ng mga magagaling sa English?
anong pipiliin nyo? tunog ENGLISH 101 ang english speaking ability mo,tapos ang trabaho mo eh call center staff? or ERAP english ka pero BOSS ka sa companya?

[Tonyang]

Ayumi, Morena, TR250 at mga kasama, ang rason kung bakit markado ang mga depekto o main risks ng bansa natin ay terorismo, graft and corruption at kawalan ng effective leadership dahil ang matatalino ng bayan (iskolar ng bayan) na dapat silang tutulong para iangat ng bayan ay karaniwang sarili muna bago bayan. O kung lumabas man sila ng bayan, dahil matatalino naman sila, sana gumagawa ng mga pamamaraan para di mapabayaan ang sitwasyon sa Pinas. Kahit sinong matalinong makakausap natin, alam ang nangyayari sa Pinas... how come walang ginagawa man lang. Mahirap bang makagawa ng paraan para makatulong kahit konti?

Sa aking tingin, ang pagkakasulat ng "Decline in English proficiency in Philippines threatens economy" ay napaka-subjective (ika nga'y -palagay o pakiramdam na walang lantad na mga ebidensiya dahil ang analysis na naging rason ng ganitong konklusyon ay kinakailangan ng trend o pattern). Ito ay maaaring pagkakaroon lamang ng mabilisang sagot tungkol sa estado ng ating ekonomiya para mapagtakpan ang mas nakakatakot na mga katotohanan.　Isa pa'y lumang tugtugin na ang "pagiging English-speakers" naitn ang tumutulong o tutulong sa paglago ng bansa. Hangga't may terorismo at walang confidence sa liderato, mananatiling problematic ang ating ekonomiya.

[Tantantin]

Hi everyone. Ganyan na ba ngayon sa Pilipinas? We have a medium size business here in the US and fairly doing well. We are thinking of expanding our Ops in the Philippines. I would love to really speak to them in Tagalog. Its my native language. Pa-sosyal pa rin ba ang mga Pinoy sa atin?

[TR250]

Ayumi, Morena, TR250 at mga kasama, ang rason kung bakit markado ang mga depekto o main risks ng bansa natin ay terorismo, graft and corruption at kawalan ng effective leadership dahil ang matatalino ng bayan (iskolar ng bayan) na dapat silang tutulong para iangat ng bayan ay karaniwang sarili muna bago bayan. O kung lumabas man sila ng bayan, dahil matatalino naman sila, sana gumagawa ng mga pamamaraan para di mapabayaan ang sitwasyon sa Pinas. Kahit sinong matalinong makakausap natin, alam ang nangyayari sa Pinas... how come walang ginagawa man lang. Mahirap bang makagawa ng paraan para makatulong kahit konti?

Sa aking tingin, ang pagkakasulat ng "Decline in English proficiency in Philippines threatens economy" ay napaka-subjective (ika nga'y -palagay o pakiramdam na walang lantad na mga ebidensiya dahil ang analysis na naging rason ng ganitong konklusyon ay kinakailangan ng trend o pattern). Ito ay maaaring pagkakaroon lamang ng mabilisang sagot tungkol sa estado ng ating ekonomiya para mapagtakpan ang mas nakakatakot na mga katotohanan.　Isa pa'y lumang tugtugin na ang "pagiging English-speakers" naitn ang tumutulong o tutulong sa paglago ng bansa. Hangga't may terorismo at walang confidence sa liderato, mananatiling problematic ang ating ekonomiya.

Bagamt limitado ang topic sa "English Profeciency" ay tama rin yang sinabi mo tungkol sa graft and curruption, terrorism, pamahalaan, etc. Ang focus ko ay dito lang sa loob ng topic dahil napakalawak ng magiging usapan kung pagsasama-samahin natin ang lahat ng mga ito. Dahil nasabi ang tungkol diyan sa mas malaking problema ng bayan ay heto naman ang para sa akin. Ang malaking tanong ay bakit ba may terorismo? Bakit ba may nasa kaliwa at nasa kanan? Bakit ba may graft and corruption? Bakit ba may mga pulpol na leader? Bakit ba puros tanong pero konti lang ang kasagutan... Para sa akin ay matagal na akong gumawa ng hakbang na base sa maliit kong kakayahan. Ano ba ito? Siguro ay nabasa mo na ang ilan sa mga naisulat ko lalu na sa business section na hindi ako nag e-export papuntang Pinas. Bakit kaya? Simple lang ang sagot na bagamat gusto ko ng pera ay gusto ko ring makatulong sa papapagitan ng hindi pagtulong o pagdagdag pa sa maling pamamaraan. Pwede akong mag export pero bakit hindi ko ginagawa ito? Marami na rin akong natanggap na offer pero nalaman ko na parang ordinaryo na ang patakarang lagayan na hindi ako sangayon. Ilan na rin ang mga may pera na nakipag-usap sa akin tungkol dito pero dahil nga sa hindi ko gusto ang mga pamamaraan ay hindi ako nagtutuloy. Pag nag tuloy ako ay isa na rin ako sa mga tumulong sa pag suporta sa maling pamamaraan. May mga sari-sarili tayong pamamaraan at ang paraan ko ay ang huwag sumali sa mali dahil ang mali ay mali at maski pagbalibaliktarin pa natin ay mali. Pwede rin akong magsalitang na parang makata at ipakita ko ang pagmamahal sa ating bayan pero hindi yan ang style ko. Hindi rin ako supporter ng mga OS dahil ang mali ay mali at hindi pwedeng i-justify ang mali na bagamat naaawa at naiintindihan ko ang sitwasyon ng mga OS ay hindi ko pa rin maibibigay ang aking suporta dahil mali. Ilang beses na rin akong nagsubok na mag donate ng mga saskyan ko pero ano ang nakuha kong kapalit... kadalasan ay gusto pa akong kwartahan o gawing negosyo ang ido-donate ko. Siguro ay ito ang munti kong pamamaraan para sa hindi pagtulong sa graft and corruption pero kung diretso ang kausap ay maski saan kami abutin ay makikipag deal ako. Meroon humingi sa akin ng tulong kelan lang tungkol sa mga piyesa. Wala siyang alam at wala rin siyang koneksyon at kulang pa ang pera niya. Pinadala ko ang mga piyesa niya at abunado pa ako pero masaya ako dahil alam kong diretso ang taong ito at ginawa niya ang lahat at nagbayad ng buo sa akin kaya nga lang ay kinapos ang pera niya sa bank transfer fees. Marunong din naman akong tumulong kung gagampanan niya ang napagkasunduan na maski mag abono pa ako ay OK lang.

Bakit nga ba may terrorism, meroon din silang sinusunod na mga adhikain at patakaran na hindi ako ang para maghusga kung tama o mali sila. Ang dalawa kong kapatid ay PMAyers at bilang kuya ay ako mismo ay ayaw ko ang terorismo. Madaling magsalita na ayoko ng graft ang corruption, ayoko ng terorismo, ayoko ng pulpol na lider pero may ginagawa ba tayo? Ako ay matagal ng nagumpisa at ito lang ay sa loob ng aking kakayahan na hindi ako susuporta sa corruption pero wala akong magagawa tungkol sa hindi pagkakaintindihan ng magkabilang grupo dahil may kani-kanila silang mga adhikain, pamamaraan at patakaran. Simple lang ginagawa ko at "no big talks" pero matagal na akong nagumpisa. Tungkol naman sa mga pulpol na lider ay maaaring pulpol ang tingin ng iba sa kanila pero maaari ding namang diretso sila sa paniningin ng iba. Mahirap maghusga at mahirap magsalita ng kulang sa gawa. Alam kong iba ang pamamaraan mo at iba rin ang pamamaraan ko pero siguro kung iisipin ay parepareho lang tayong lahat na umaasa/nagnanais na maging mahusay ang kalagayan ng ating bansa, Iba-iba nga lang tayo ng pamamaraan.

Tatandaan natin na ang Ingles ay isang bahagi lang ng problema. Kung lalahatin natin ay wala tayong matatapos na trabaho. Para bang jack of all trade but a master of none. Kaya nga dito lang muna ako sa topic ng English dahil mahirap pag masyadong malaki ang angle of view dahil baka sa laki ay baka di ko na tamaan yung binabaril kong ibon.

Sana minsan ay magkaroon tayo ng pagkakataong mag-usap at baka sakali na sa maliliit nating mga pamamaraan ay baka naman magkaroon ito ng mahusay na bunga.

[PILIPINAS]

Hi everyone. Ganyan na ba ngayon sa Pilipinas? We have a medium size business here in the US and fairly doing well. We are thinking of expanding our Ops in the Philippines. I would love to really speak to them in Tagalog. Its my native language. Pa-sosyal pa rin ba ang mga Pinoy sa atin?

Welcome to TF.:D
Sana maraming mga Pilipino, galing sa iba't ibang bansa, ang magsiuwi at makapagtayo ng sariling enterprise, katulad ng inyong binabalak. It is one way to lessen our dependence to foreign investors. Good Luck po sa inyo! ;)

[d_southpaw]

Pasali rin dito. Very relevant issue.

My take on this is, it is our COMMUNICATION skill - which is not high, in general or on the average - that is on the bottom of it. Language happens to be the main medium to communicate, although it is not the only thing important for CONSTRUCTIVE/POSITIVE COMMUNICATION to take place. In our case, the language involved is/are native language or/and English.

I think equally important is ATTITUDE. We do not possess a lot of positive attitudes that the nationals of those progressive countries possess or have learned, again, in general or speaking on the average terms.

Malawak na topic din yang 'attitude', but I guess it can be summed up as 'good and positive attitude'.

Kaya marami ring ibang bansa na kahit hindi 'halos' marunong mag-English, mauunlad sila. Dahil nakakapag-communicate sila sa kanil-kaniang sarili, accurately, constructively (at maraming pag ibang good points). Kahit anong kailangang pag-usapan, bagong konsepto ba yan, o problema, o bagong idea, lalo na sa larangan ng negosyo, napansin ko na mas mataas yong level ng positive reaction nila. Sariling experience at mga nabasa ko lang ang aking batayan, kaya hindi ko naman sasabihin with certainty.

As for the importance of English, it is very useful, as it is the business language in many countries. If we can maintain or improve very high English language skill level, koshita koto ga nai... Nothing to lose there. There are things to gain... Pero kahit nga hindi English. Kung maraming mga Pilipino ang matututo ng high level Japanese and understand the Japanese attitude as well, significant ang impact niyan sa bansa natin. Obviously, this is saying the 'ideal'. It is not going to happened unless ......

[TR250]

d_southpaw,

Good and possitive attitude? I dont know if I have those qualities but I do have lots of "attitude" :devil:

[d_southpaw]

d_southpaw,

Good and possitive attitude? I dont know if I have those qualities but I do have lots of "attitude" :devil:

Hehe. I am referring to the average Filipino.

I guess we who are fortunate to have been exposed and had the opportunity to learn other culture and languages no longer belong to the average or the general Filipino. In many different ways, we have already learned how to communicate - be it in schools here, workplace or business interactions.


If I am going to continue what I wrote in the previous, it will be in a form of a question to every reader of this forum- what can actually be done to help at least one another Filipino have better attitudes and improve their communications skills ? Forget talking from general or govt level perspective. As fortunates individuals - what can each do on his/her own ?

[pointblank]

Dear pipol,

Susubukan kong magbigay ng balanseng opinion tungkol dito sa "Decline in English Proficiency..."

Totoo na hindi naman absolute necessity ang pagiging magaling sa English para umunlad ang Pilipinas. Ang Thailand, Korea, Japan, China, etc., bano mag-Ingles, pero maunlad. Ngunit ang tandaan natin, magaling sila sa sarili nilang wika, kaya kahit na hindi sila marunong mag-Ingles ay maganda pa rin ang communication skills nila. Ikinalulungkot kong sabihin, at siguro ay napapansin niyo na rin, na maraming Pinoy (kasama na ako diyan) na hindi rin magaling mag-Filipino. Tignan niyo na lang ang mga posts sa Timog, kahit na Tagalog, mali-mali ang grammar, walang comma, walang period, walang capital letters, basta't sugod ng sugod na parang nakikipag-chikahan lang sa palengke.

So, the conclusion is: hindi talagang kailangan ang Ingles, ngunit dapat ay marunong naman tayo sa sarili nating wika kung ayaw natin ng Ingles.

That being said, mas maganda kung magaling tayo sa parehong Filipino at Ingles. Additional skill din yan, at wala namang mawawala sa atin sa pagiging mahusay sa Ingles.

Doon naman sa article na "Decline in English Proficiency...", tama din siya in a certain sense kung lawakan natin ang ating pananaw. Dahil sa napaka-English dependent sa kasalukuyan ang maraming sectors ng ating economy (mga call centers, mga export products, mga overseas workers, mga IT-related fields, etc.), talagang maapektuhan ang income-earning capabilities natin FOR THE TIME BEING pag humina din ang galing natin sa Ingles. Note: sinabi ko na "for the time being", meaning to say, hanggang mapalitan natin ang "character" ng economy natin from an outside-oriented one to a more domestic demand-driven economy. Dito ngayon papasok ang nationalism natin - kung gaano tayo ka-commited sa pagpapaganda ng kinabukasan ng ating bansa.

Merong nagsabi sa thread na ito na hindi naman kasi exclusive-school graduates ang lahat ng tao sa TF, kung kaya't hindi lahat diretso mag-Ingles. Hindi niyo kailangan mag-apologize o mahiya! Ano ngayon kung di kayo marunong mag-Ingles, kung magaling naman kayo mag-Filipino? Kahanga-hanga nga ang mga malalalim managalog (dahil hindi ko kaya!). Ang nakakainis, yung mga bano na nga mag-Ingles, pero pa wurz-wurz pa. Mali-mali ang grammar, pero mahilig gumamit ng "'cuz" "sumthin'" "ya know" atbp, in short, yung mga nagpupumilit na maging brown Americans! Hindi na kasi ito problema ng utak (language skills) kundi ng puso (pagmamahal sa Pinas) at damdamin (colonial mentality).

Yun lang!

[PILIPINAS]

Dear pipol,

Merong nagsabi sa thread na ito na hindi naman kasi exclusive-school graduates ang lahat ng tao sa TF, kung kaya't hindi lahat diretso mag-Ingles. Hindi niyo kailangan mag-apologize o mahiya! Ano ngayon kung di kayo marunong mag-Ingles, kung magaling naman kayo mag-Filipino? Kahanga-hanga nga ang mga malalalim managalog (dahil hindi ko kaya!). Ang nakakainis, yung mga bano na nga mag-Ingles, pero pa wurz-wurz pa. Mali-mali ang grammar, pero mahilig gumamit ng "'cuz" "sumthin'" "ya know" atbp, in short, yung mga nagpupumilit na maging brown Americans! Hindi na kasi ito problema ng utak (language skills) kundi ng puso (pagmamahal sa Pinas) at damdamin (colonial mentality).


I agree. Basta nagkakaintindihan tayo. Okay lang!
Dagdag ko lang, simula ng tumira ako dito sa Japan, kailangan kong maging tri-lingual, Tagalog, English at Nihonggo. Sa utak ko, parang may tatlong switch na minsan napaghahalo-halo ko. Ang resulta, WALA. Because sometimes, I find it difficult to write or speak in straight Tagalog, straight English nor Japanese. And because of that I feel that I'm losing some of my identities. I'm not complaining because this is the life I chose.
Sorry, kung OT ako. Pero, tulad ng sinabi ni pointblack, importante pa rin ang sarili nating wika. Somehow, this keeps our identity intact, making us different from the rest of the world. :confused:

[NemoySpruce]

.... I find it difficult to write or speak in straight Tagalog, straight English nor Japanese. And because of that I feel that I'm losing some of my identities. I'm not complaining because this is the life I chose.
Sorry, kung OT ako. Pero, tulad ng sinabi ni pointblack, importante pa rin ang sarili nating wika. Somehow, this keeps our identity intact, making us different from the rest of the world. :confused:
importante ang sarili nating wika, pero hindi ito basehan ng national identity natin. Unang una, ano ba ang tinutukoy mong wika natin? tagalog? ilonggo? cebuano? ilocano? chabacano? ... Language is a medium for communicating ideas, it is a tool. Language does not define your national identity in any way. Some americans are more Filipino than some Filipinos I know, And some Filipinos are more american than some americans. A language can be used in many ways, depending on the people using it. I dont care what language you use, if you can make me understand what you are trying to say, then its all good. Reading and speaking a language are two different planets altogether, these forums are somewhere in the middle. You can post 2 ways, like a book, or like someone talking. both is good for me, as long as you organize your thoughts, and present it in a clear, readable way.

it doesnt matter whether you speak nihongo, english or tagalog, kung pinoy ka, pinoy ka.

[j_erick]

astig po ang paksa... at naniniwala ako na kailangan talaga natin ng kakayanan sa ingles para sa pagunlad natin... huwag na sana natin ikumpara ang bansa natin sa ibang hindi bihasa magingles pero maunlad naman kasi maunlad na sila eh... tayo hindi pa...hindi man sila marunong ng ibang lingwahe, kaya na nilang tumayo sa sarili nilang paa... ngayon ba kung titigil tayo sa pagiiingles, may mapapala ba tayo??? sa tingin ko po wala... ngayon, dahil nga bihasa na tayo sa ingles, bakit hindi na lang natin payabungin ang ating kakayanan sa paggamit ng wikang to? gamitin nating armas kung baga...

isa pa kung bakit sa tingin ko mahalaga ang salitang ingles sa atin eh dahil, halimbawa sa akin, wala pa akong nababasang libro na magagamit ko sa aking espesyalisasyon, ang inhenyeriya,(pero estudyante pa lang po ako) na nakasulat sa tagalog, pero hindi ko sinasabing wala kasi hindi ko alam. Kung mababa ang abilidad ko sa wikang yon, malamang eh abutin ako ng siyam syam sa pagunawa ng kahit ilang pahina lang (hindi pa kasama ang ilang araw na pagunawa sa totoong laman ng libro)... kung hindi ko mababasa ang mga librong yun, meron ba kong mababasa na makakatulong sa kin? sa tingin ko ganun din sa ibang espesyalisasyon tulad ng economics, business administration, sciences, atbp... ... ...kung hindi uunlad ang mga estudyante dahil sa kakulangan ng kakayanan sa pagunawa ng mga libro, pano tayo magkakaron ng mga propesyonal??

ngayon, ang nakikita kong nangyayari eh may umuusbong na bagong wika na bunga ng paghahalohalo ng ingles, tagalog, text messages, at mga salitang kalye... sa tingin ko, ang wikang ito ay nakakapagpapurol ng mga kakayahan ng mga tao sa wikang ingles lalo na sa wikang tagalog... oo nga at nagkakaunawaan tayo.. pero hindi ba pwedeng ihiwalay natin ang usapang kaibigan sa usapang trabaho... dahil sa trabaho hindi mo naman kailangan ang mga yun...
isa ko pang nabasa sa isang artikulo na hindi ko na maalala kung saan (ipopost ko na lang pag nakita ko na ulit) eh ang kagimbalgimbal na bilang ng mga pilipinong nagbabasa ng libro (hindi kasama ang mga taong nagbabasa dahil kailangan sa proyekto, skwela, o kung ano pa mang pwersahang pangangailangan...). at OUCH dahil kasama na ko dun... sa totoo lang, ang binabasa ko lang na mga ingles na likha eh mga librong pang engineering, math, science, mga　漫画 na isinalin sa ingles at ibang mga artikulong ingles na talagang nakalilibang. ito rin marahil ang isang dahilan kung bakit bumababa ang antas natin sa pagiingles...
isa pa siguro ay ang mga guro mismo... kahit ang guro ko sa ingles sa UP ay tinuruan kami ng ENGLISH 1 gamit ang tagalog... tapos ang pinsan ko na kagragraduate lang sa isang public high school na hindi naman kababaan ang lebel kumpara sa buong 4th year ng eskwelahan nila eh hindi ko makausap kahit isang minuto lang sa wikang ingles dahil hindi niya kayang makasabay... kung hindi pa siya ang pinakamababa sa klase at kung ang eskwelahan niya ay katulad lang ng lahat ng pampublikong paaralan sa buong marikina (syempre hindi kasama ang MARIKINA SCIENCE HIGH SCHOOL na dating MSAT na naging MIST, dun ako nagtapos eh.. hehehe.. *bias??*), ilang bata kaya ang magtatapos ng high school na hindi kayang makipagusap sa wikang ingles??? ngayon, pano sya nakapagtapos ng ganun??? pano kaya magturo ang mga guro nila at natapos nila ang 4 na taon ng ingles na hindi man lang kayang makipagusap???

ngayon, kung hindi sila marunong magingles, ano kaya ang makukuha nilang kurso sa kolehiyo? ano kaya ang magiging propesyon nila???

yun lan po ang aking kurokuro （黒黒<-- hehehe joke po ito)

[docomo]

It's not particularly surprising to me that language is such a contentious issue, because of it's universality, and it's power. It's how we communicate most of our thoughts, so words are vessels of love,hate,joy and misery. I'm interested in language and grammar but I would never be so foolish as to base a person's "competency" on whatever they know where to put an apostrophe. Proper grammar is meant to help people communicate better,not to discriminate againsts one another. :)

[pointblank]

I'm interested in language and grammar but I would never be so foolish as to base a person's "competency" on whatever they know where to put an apostrophe. :)

Hello docomo!

I agree, specially if the mistake is due to a language ability problem. E kung yun ang best effort niya, then OK lang - hindi ibig sabihin na bano siya sa lahat ng bagay.

Pero minsan kasi, the mistakes are due to an attitude problem: sloppiness! I cannot believe that someone could be so language-challenged as to not realize that an entire paragraph running several lines can be understood easily if it does not have periods and commas. Sa madaling salita, ang pinapakitang attitude ay: talak lang ako ng talak, mereseng maintindihan ninyo o hindi, wala akong paki at di ko na problema yon! This attitude I cannot easily forgive, since it reflects how a person would handle the othe aspects of his life. Jibun katte, kung baga...

[Tantantin]

I agree with you a 100% docomo. ;)

[greatbarrier]

Well, you may have a point in that. But I think the reason we are behind is due to lack of State nationalism.
@mylfer919mdo
True! & that is one of the reasons why japan, despite its people's deficiency in english, is still one of the giants that command world's economy....another example is korea. decades ago, koreans envied the filipinos as we used to have tiger economy in the asian region, almost comparable to japan...no one wanted to work abroad coz the ratio of dollar to peso is 1:1. koreans worked hard and go back to their country to help improve its economy! how about us....where are we now...sad to say...almost kalevel na ng cambodia!

& that is because filipinos lack nationalism! puro pansariling interest lang! & that is pretty obvious among the corrupt officials! & to make matter worst, the public's money laundered to their pockets are invested in other country! nakaw na nga, ibang economy pa nakinabang! sana man lang, dito na lang ininvest so the economic equation did not change! more so, it may generate employment for the people and revenue for the government! (sory po, medyo OT na to)

haay! pag ganito ang topic, i can't help but whine! & malungkot! kasi kokonti lang ang mga pilipino na meron state nationalism! like the overseas workers...you guys...help drive our economy!

nevertheless, i still believe that there is still hope for this country! so long as there are filipinos who have faith in his fellow filipinos' talent and ingenuity! so long as we can communicate our thoughts and knowledge.....with our without the english language! malay natin....in the near future...baka mandarin na kelangan natin matutunan....

[Tonyang]

We just need initiators and leaders who will persevere. Ganoon lang kasimple ag solusyon natin. Naghihirap tayo sa Pinas dahil individualistic ang mga Pinoy. Kanya-kanya. Pinaka-qualified talaga riyan ang mga iskolar ng bayan kaya nasaan sila para tulungan ang bayan? Di ko maintindihan kung bakit sila nagtatago o ayaw lumabas para tulungan ang bayan.

[Dax]

[A little reminder]

Let us avoid making off-topic posts. I can pinpoint at least five already. :O This thread is about English proficiency and the economy of the Philippines. If we would like to discuss topics other than this one, we can search for an existing thread or start a new one. :)

nick (http://www.timog.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86799&postcount=1) has this to say about OT:Also recently, off-topic comments have been cropping up in threads all over the Forum. As we remind people time and again, off-topic comments should be avoided in the forums. They are especially prohibited in threads in the Commnity Forums. We will start giving warnings to people who make off-topic comments.Please take note that this thread is under Frontpage Items. Needless to say, threads under this category are very important to us all.

Going back to topic...my take on the subject has already been mentioned by pointblank:
The problem is, I believe, not the language per se, but rather the level at which we use the language. We can either go English or Filipino - what is important is that we speak (read & write as well) it properly.And Paul:Sorry for being blunt, but the fact is very few people here can write properly. Writing has never been one of our best skills. We were never trained to write well at school, be it in English or Filipino. Filipinos are talkers. We love to talk. We love to talk so much, we write the way we talk.I have nothing further to say. :wave:

[Dax]

Here's a related article on this issue:

Call center labor shortage bearing down on RP (http://news.inq7.net/infotech/index.php?index=1&story_id=78510)

Excerpts:
Currently, the attrition rate is at 35 percent, well above the 8.3-percent attrition rate that the industry has set as acceptable.
CCAP reported that of the 400,000 Filipino college graduates per year, only 100,000 are immediately employable. Of this 100,000 only 12,000 could pass requirements to work as contact center agents.
CCAP Director Benedict Hernandez said the current shortage could be attributed to the current quality of education college graduates receive. This includes lack of proper English communications skills necessary for this type of employment.

[v_wrangler]

Here's a related article on this issue:

Call center labor shortage bearing down on RP (http://news.inq7.net/infotech/index.php?index=1&story_id=78510)

Excerpts:

I think they are missing the point. Its not only about the lack of english proficient manpower that causes the shortage. They do not realize that the problem will keep on coming back because the manpower turnovers are high. Most of the young graduates working in the call centers (specially those in the graveyard shifts) are simply in the business to make quick extra cash. And would probably leave when their expectations aren't met or when some other promising and or permanent opportunities come before them...

.. And I think Paul et al already gave a good summation on why the Philippines facing a slump in the language proficiency, ours included...

[Tonyang]

Right... I think they should hire English major graduates instead albeit call center industry has no promise for our country's future. I also beg to disagree that all college graduates are interested to become call center agents and that is to wit:

"CCAP reported that of the 400,000 Filipino college graduates per year, only 100,000 are immediately employable. Of this 100,000 only 12,000 could pass requirements to work as contact center agents. This is still well below the 60,000 minimum needed by the call center industry."

Bakit ganyan ang analysis nila? Call center industry na lang ba ang puwedeng pagbagsakan ng mga graduate natin sa Pinas?

Tapos, dahil di sila masaya sa kumokonting bilang dahil less sa kita nila, masama na ang edukasyon ng Pilipinas. What a recognition!!! Kanila bang ina-analyze ang magandang idinudulot ng call center sa ating bayan? Di ba may exploitation pa nga ang industry na ito?

I see that Dax as a moderator is trying to align the thoughts. It's good that the topic became more specific and perhaps the discussion of potential solutions becomes specifc too...that is, specific discussion for specific solution.

By the way, ano ba ang mga nagagamit na English expressions sa isang call center job at kailangan ng English proficiency pa?

"Hello"
"Good evening" o "Good morning"
"Can I help you"
"How many cards would you like to buy"

At sinu-sino nga ba ang pinagbebentahan o target clients ng mga call center na ito at kailangan pa ng English proficiency? Tanong ko lang bigla. Baka Pinoy rin ang target clients sa ibang bansa...matatawa na tayo ng malakas niyan.

At iyung mga hiring manager, English proficient ba talaga?

Masyadong kinakawawa ang mga graduate natin sa Pinas... mababa na nga ang suweldo nila kung makapasok sa trabaho. Pati pagsasalita nila ng English, questionable pa rin. Ayan tuloy, generalist na naman ako. Balik tayo sa specifician mode. Foul English o coined ba ito?

Guys and gals, btw, sumulat na ako ng feedback sa INQ7.net para lumalabas tayo ng konti sa TF sphere at maging makatotohanan sa mga galaw at gusto nating imungkahi di ba? Pagtapos niyan, CCAP mismo ang kontakin natin.

[NemoySpruce]

I have a friend who used to work in a call center. medyo matagal na to, one year ago. Ang trabaho nya taga singil ng utang ng credit card, mga amerikano tinatawagan nya. She had to go through some 'accent neutralization' training to make her sound like american, and they gave her a fake american name. She was told not to say she is in the philippines when the clients ask. I only know of this one incident, so hindi ko alam kung common practice ito sa call centers, pero medyo nakaka asar hindi ba? Sa pilipinas sila kukuha ng labor kase mura, pero kahit yung recognition na nga lang na de kalidad na trabahong pinoy ang ginagamit nila, di pa maibigay? bakit? ikinahihiya nila na kailangan nilang kumuha sa isang mahirap na bansa tulad ng pilipinas ng labor kasi ang mga laborers nila lahat tamad at 'taga' kung maningil. Eto namang mga call center, palibasa naglalaway sa dolyares na pinapain ng mga US business, sunod na lang ng sunod di na nagiisip. Tapos ngayon sasabihan mo ang mga pilipino na bobo at hindi marunong mag ingles kaya naghihirap, tapos mag tataka ka kung bakit walang nationalistic pride ang mga pilipino? Call center labor shortage? di kaya ayaw na ng tao mag trabaho sa call centers kasi trabahong nakaka bobo yan, at may mga pangarap ang mga pilipino. Sa akin lang, yung mga may ari nyang call center na yan, kayo mag aral ng ingles, at kayo na mismo ang tumawag sa mga kano, wag nyo na kami idamay, may iba kaming pangarap.

[Tonyang]

Nemoy, buti at di tayo na-cut..hehe! No doubt boom ang call center industry sa Pinas... kung may bagong pamamaraan at bagong trabaho sana na magagawa tayo para tapatan ito, mas ok. Why not build small businesses? Or cite possibilities instead of call center jobs.

[infinite_trial]

<on_topic>

on english proficiency as a threat:

english proficiency as economic threat? that's only if we gauge the economic growth of our country wit the number of call centers we build in a year or outsourcin contracts we won over the lazy foreigners who could've gotten those jobs. though i must agree that schools should concentrate on teachin english, they should also promote the use of our own language to preserve our culture and instill nationalism.

education must be presented in an enjoyable way to encourage students. how bout practicin creative writin through essays, poems and short stories? teach student to express themselves through actual conversation and discussion of certain topics in classes which can be done through impromptu speech or a debate.

</on_topic>

<off_topic>

on call centers requirin "proper english communication skills":

call center agents are often required to undergo accent trainin and speech classes. but this ain't sumthin like the old school way of teachin english in which grammar has to be really proper and pronunciation of words has to be by the dictionary (even if you look at the dictionary yourself you'll find a lot of revised pronunciations). so why do agents have to fake accents and even use a fake foreign name? cuz foreigners find it hard to comprehend thick accents like those of indians and they often have long names that are difficult to pronounce. since america has different states, you must be able to recognize your caller's origin through his accent (cuz it would be rude to ask if he's a black or a mexican). the agent is trained to distinguish that texans pronounce words like seven as "seh-buhn" and speak in a cowboy twang; afro-americans talk fast and talk in ghetto-speak; new yorkers who usually don't pause when talkin and don't pronounce their r's unlike latin-americans.

it is important that an agent know the basics in accent and the culture of their clients. cuz even if you mispronounced just a single word, some customers would begin to ask you questions that would only lengthen the conversation which the company wouldn't wanna happen. and if you've got an irate customer, most likely they will begin to say cuss words and ask for a supervisor for you bein "incompetent". basic knowledge of streetspeak is a must so that you wouldn't be scratchin your head in the middle of the conversation if the customer suddenly utters "aight", "sup", or even the worst "mofo".

on bad english vs. good english:

english itself is a bastardization of different languages. but how could we distinguish bad english? what is the difference of good english and standard english? some people say it's good english when it sounds good. is this why most english schools prefer native speakers than people who can speak correct english? if they can only see how they spell! they even spell grammar, grammer! duh! ironic as it may sound..but there are some people think a play wit obsolete words sounds intelligent when it is in fact dumb in meanin (oh so that's why i don't understand a plenty of new york best sellers).

language in general evolves along wit the technology. shortened words like "ne1", "w8", etc. are bein used in text/sms peak to be able to send long messages for a few bucks. acronyms like "IMO", "ASL", "OMG" are bein used in chats and forums (i personally think those are invented for people who are: too lazy to type, beatin the keyboard wit 2 fingers, chattin while the boss is around and got no time to do the spellcheck LOLZ). these "technology languages" are "cool" only when used appropriately. i don't mind readin a text-speak when i receive a text message. i don't mind if mah conversation wit mah chatmate is mostly composed of abbreviations, acronyms, l337 speak (leet speak) and even the most annoyin CaPiTaLiZaTiOn of every other letter WTF! but hey...a teacher won't expect to see his/her students submittin essays wit smileys =) and AOL speak. it is only rational for the editor to scold his writer for submittin his work for wrong punctuation or the lack of it. in 5-10 years, i wouldn't be surprised if i see those internet speak symbols and/or terms in the dictionary. who knows...english language might evolve into sumthin like kanji or hieroglyphics (whew! i'm wonderin if the ms word spellcheck could tell if that word is mispelled or not) in the future.

like most of the people posted in this thread pointed out, the expression of thought is much more given consideration than followin the standards and rules of grammar. different races and different generations have different ways of sayin almost every thought. so it's only understandable that dad gets irritated wit the conio speak; mom gettin crazy wit the gay lingo, tagalog and english used altogether; noobs confusin the meanin of all those IRC acronyms. who says it ain't no G droppin the G's? i don't care cuz language is impure.

peace out dude pare!

</off_topic>

[v_wrangler]

language in general evolves along wit the technology. shortened words like "ne1", "w8", etc. are bein used in text/sms peak to be able to send long messages for a few bucks. acronyms like "IMO", "ASL", "OMG" are bein used in chats and forums (i personally think those are invented for people who are: too lazy to type, beatin the keyboard wit 2 fingers, chattin while the boss is around and got no time to do the spellcheck LOLZ). these "technology languages" are "cool" only when used appropriately.


Hello infinite, you have pretty nice points in there! But frankly I hope you can do something wit your sumthins and all those wazzups. I think they sound cool when spoken but the forums might not be a good place for them because most of us are reading retards.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[infinite_trial]

i understand that this is a forum, to quote mahself these "technology languages" are "cool" only when used appropriately ...so am i in the wrong place? regarding most of us reading retards, well i guess we have to get some netspeak or urban dictionary. at least im not talkin in binary.

[d_southpaw]

Since there are posts from the negative side, I just like to pitch in to give a viewpoint looking at call center 'industry' from a different angle.

At one perspective, these call center or outsourcing services where the markets are mostly foreign countries, have good things to offer to the Philippines for the following reasons:

1/ There are a lot of jobs created (how many is the estimate numbers - is that the 60K mentioned in the article, or even in the hundred thousand range or more?) for our kababayan. That means stable life, steady income for that many people.

2/ Any person having a regular job, will always have a chance for growth, either on his/her own initiative or as required by the job. For one, I would say that at the conversation skill of most of those people working at the call centers will improve.

Having a good income - I heard that the salary it the call centers is competitive - will allow one to invest to him/herself for his/her own growth.

3/ There is a possibility of winning the next oursourcing services that requires higher skill jobs. I guess starting at simple tasks and doing them properly can lead to this. For sure, those foreign companies will not give the more critical tasks when they have not seen that even the simple jobs are not done satisfactorily.

In a sense, this call centers can be seen as something similar to OEM, which many companies do. Someone else (ie: in China) will manufacture the product, or many parts of the product, another company (ie: in the US) will put them together and sell with their names in it. The product (services actually) being OEM'ed is the communication skills of the Filipino workers, put together as a whole.

Generally, it is always good for the Philippines to win foreign related businesses. Dahil baligtad ang situation ngayon. Foreign businesses are winning in our land, we hardly are winning in theirs, and that is saying something. So I would guess that it is better to be in winning in this industry, while at the same time, the other Filipinos, ourselves included, are trying to put up other businesses that can play in both the Philippines and the foreign marketplace.

[v_wrangler]

i understand that this is a forum, to quote mahself these "technology languages" are "cool" only when used appropriately ...so am i in the wrong place? regarding most of us reading retards, well i guess we have to get some netspeak or urban dictionary. at least im not talkin in binary.
I'm sorry, I do not understand your binary thing at all. In the meantime, please follow the rules regarding textspeak, slang types and all that because most old people here including myself have a hard time understanding. It is sadly ironic that we are stressing good points about communication proficiency and we ourselves cannot even follow some basic TF writing rules. Slang our way when we talk in person, fine. But in the forums let us all exert effort in writing Tagalog or english properly, shall we?

[infinite_trial]

im sorry sir but i don't find the slang speak in the TF rules. sorry for bein stubborn.

[docomo]

i think another main reason pa kung bakit nag de~decline ang english sa atin sa kadahilanang kulang na ng teachers sa atin.. good or not so good teachers lumalabas talaga ng pilipinas, nagma~ migrate talaga sa ibang bansa dahil sa kaliitan ng sweldong natatanggap.. which i think hindi mo naman masisisi kung bakit.. :)

[NemoySpruce]

im sorry sir but i don't find the slang speak in the TF rules. sorry for bein stubborn.

you are right, its not in there, i had to check :D I dont mind your slang posting style, quite original, i cant place the accent though, its like a mix of southern californian and newyorker, and other stuff, quite ecclectic, nice though. This is the internet after all, it is supposed to be the embodiment of 'freedom of expression', a touchy business that. At least you are polite, and your posts make sense and are easy enough to understand. I do however have a question and a challenge if you are up to it. Are you able to write well using common verse? If you are, then your 'slang style' is acceptable, you are only doing it to try to liven up this dreary place... full of old people and philosopher wanna be's..... But if you are not able to write proper, then I suggest you use these forums as practice to learn, and quit your funky slang. Post an original piece, done entirely in boring normal speak, and if its good Ill help you fight for your right to post like a schizophrenic hapa with an identity crisis. Just in case the mods are thinking to delete this post, let me just say it is still well within the topic 'English deficiency'.

[infinite_trial]

you are right, its not in there, i had to check :D I dont mind your slang posting style, quite original, i cant place the accent though, its like a mix of southern californian and newyorker, and other stuff, quite ecclectic, nice though. This is the internet after all, it is supposed to be the embodiment of 'freedom of expression', a touchy business that. At least you are polite, and your posts make sense and are easy enough to understand. I do however have a question and a challenge if you are up to it. Are you able to write well using common verse? If you are, then your 'slang style' is acceptable, you are only doing it to try to liven up this dreary place... full of old people and philosopher wanna be's..... But if you are not able to write proper, then I suggest you use these forums as practice to learn, and quit your funky slang. Post an original piece, done entirely in boring normal speak, and if its good Ill help you fight for your right to post like a schizophrenic hapa with an identity crisis. Just in case the mods are thinking to delete this post, let me just say it is still well within the topic 'English deficiency'.

hi Nemoy. i've written some slang-free posts in the musings thread.

i rarely join in the discussions and debates on the board but i posted in this thread to make mah point...and yes i've deliberately put in all the slang in that particular post. i understand that text speak is really hard to read and is very annoyin, but slang is a different thing..and it's still english. it's just easier for me to go this way cuz it's what i've been used to. not bcuz i was raised from another country or went to any exclusive school. it's me, it's mah trademark...and no one can take it away from me.

and guys hey...don't you want this site to be swamped by younger generations? we even have a foreigner resident here just so you know.

sorry for bein off-topic.

[Tonyang]

Infinitetrial, was it easier for those who use slang words to get accepted in call center jobs?

[infinite_trial]

Infinitetrial, was it easier for those who use slang words to get accepted in call center jobs?

yes. but the slang words you use should be appropriate for the person you are talkin wit, that's why it's important to recognize their accents too. there are instances that a caller will use slang words cuz some ain't aware that their calls are bein redirected internationally. so you must be really aware of the common slang words they use. that's an advantage cuz you can build rapport wit your customers cuz you treat em casually (which they like better) and get commended for doin a great job.

[pointblank]

I do however have a question and a challenge if you are up to it. Are you able to write well using common verse? If you are, then your 'slang style' is acceptable, you are only doing it to try to liven up this dreary place... full of old people and philosopher wanna be's..... But if you are not able to write proper, then I suggest you use these forums as practice to learn, and quit your funky slang.

Exactly the point I have been trying to make, NemoySpruce!! If a person has a near flawless command of English but deliberately chooses to pepper his writing with sentences like the Afro-American "This be the coolest dude I sure know...", then I have absolutely no problems with that.

However, sorry to be bluntly "pointblank", I can count several grammatical mistakes in infinite-trial's posts. Please note that these are NOT deliberate mistakes due to a conscious attempt at style: mali talaga ang gamit ng English, since the mistakes occur in the "serious-style" phrases. Again, sorry for the bluntness, but if you expostulate on the merits of your English, then you hold yourself to a higher standard of evaluation. Peace!

[infinite_trial]

Exactly the point I have been trying to make, NemoySpruce!! If a person has a near flawless command of English but deliberately chooses to pepper his writing with sentences like the Afro-American "This be the coolest dude I sure know...", then I have absolutely no problems with that.

However, sorry to be bluntly "pointblank", I can count several grammatical mistakes in infinite-trial's posts. Please note that these are NOT deliberate mistakes due to a conscious attempt at style: mali talaga ang gamit ng English, since the mistakes occur in the "serious-style" phrases. Again, sorry for the bluntness, but if you expostulate on the merits of your English, then you hold yourself to a higher standard of evaluation. Peace!

wow i'm amazed. so you count mah mistakes wit all those posts? i am not perfect...and i didn't say mah English is flawless. but ain't you the same person who said " Of course, no one is perfect as we all make mistakes, but the effort is important" ?

language is for everyone...and so is English. it's not only for the elite and people who graduated from overrated universities.

[puting tainga]

>Wow, I'm amazed. So, you counted my mistakes in all those posts? I am not perfect...and I didn't say my English was flawless. But aren’t you the same person who said " Of course, no one is perfect as we all make mistakes, but the effort is important”?
Language is for everyone...and so is English. It's not only for the elite and people who graduated from overrated universities.




My perception of language is that it is always changing.
Expressions or styles that were considered to be wrong are now accepted and old usages are now obsolete.
Maybe we are in the process of witnessing the disappearance of vowels and capital letters.
Maybe there may be no shift key or vowel keys on future keyboards.

Still, I am comfortable with the way the moderators and others write, (and I try to write).
Most probably, the way I changed the quote will be abominable to you.
It may be manifestation of snobbishness, reminder to the inequity, which prevented you from graduating from "overrated universities" you otherwise deserved.


By the way, I remember a communist classmate who never uses capital letters, which, he claims, are Capitalistic! :D

[Tonyang]

yes. but the slang words you use should be appropriate for the person you are talkin wit, that's why it's important to recognize their accents too. there are instances that a caller will use slang words cuz some ain't aware that their calls are bein redirected internationally. so you must be really aware of the common slang words they use. that's an advantage cuz you can build rapport wit your customers cuz you treat em casually (which they like better) and get commended for doin a great job.


Thanks, Infinitetrial. So it is Filipino English that is at fault and not slang English? And so the hiring managers are looking for casual English speakers and not academic English speakers in most cases?

In this thread, we read the ideas from a number of very concerned ones. I hope there are suggested actions that are doable to meet this problem if it is really a problem.

[PILIPINAS]

In this thread, we read the ideas from a number of very concerned ones. I hope there are suggested actions that are doable to meet this problem if it is really a problem.

Ka Tonyang, I also earnestly think that there is no problem. But probably this forum was set to have standards (that makes this forum special and interesting). And the MODS with other members are just implementing and complying with those.

[NemoySpruce]

language is for everyone...and so is English. it's not only for the elite and people who graduated from overrated universities.

you are correct. 2 counts.

1) Language is for everyone
2) Universities are overrated. :D

-- but the slang words you use should be appropriate for the person you are talkin wit.

These are words of wisdom we all should take to heart. The words you use should be appropriate to the people you are talking wit.. ahem. with. It helps to get your message accross. Im all for the growth and development of language, but I think, In order for us to 'grow' in the correct direction, we should appreciate proper grammar first, before we try to 'grow' our own language.

'Slang' by the way, is defined as a stylistic use of a language, highly informal, and usually vulgar, used by a particular group to characterize themselves from others. It is usually appropriate to use 'slang', with others that speak the same slang. I guess sort of like 1337, a.k.a leet, you would not use 1337 to 74lK 70 be0bl3 7ha7 dont get it. no one would understand you.

Im not trying to smother anyone's right to speak in a creative way. Im saying do it with style and substance. Thats just my opinion, take it or toss it, its all good.

[PILIPINAS]

My perception of language is that it is always changing.
Expressions or styles that were considered to be wrong are now accepted and old usages are now obsolete.
Maybe we are in the process of witnessing the disappearance of vowels and capital letters.
Maybe there may be no shift key or vowel keys on future keyboards.

Still, I am comfortable with the way the moderators and others write, (and I try to write).
Most probably, the way I changed the quote will be abominable to you.
It may be manifestation of snobbishness, reminder to the inequity, which prevented you from graduating from "overrated universities" you otherwise deserved.


By the way, I remember a communist classmate who never uses capital letters, which, he claims, are Capitalistic! :D


Hilarious post indeed! I am also puzzled by the recent trend of text messaging. A sign of generation discrepancy, I suppose. We, on the conservative or who have faith on the "appropriate use" of English, have adverse interpretation on the "new" style of writing. And for others, this may not be of any style at all, but purely a bastardization of the language itself. This cynicism may arouse the younger generation, a gap that has no solution, except for the need of proper timing: when to use or not to. Maybe, at the expense of depriving one's right to have free expression. In rerturn, we could have a harmonious and wholesome community. Someone said before, the world is not all ours. We have to live by sharing it with others. Sa tagalaog, tamang pakikisama na lang.

[infinite_trial]

Most probably, the way I changed the quote will be abominable to you.



no, not at all. i could stand bein corrected...like i said i'm not perfect. but for some to say people from the province are tryin hard social climbers is way below the belt. mah english ain't perfect but i don't make lait to people that their english is so kadire cuz i know every sh*t.

i'm a promdi. i graduated from a so-so university. mah english might not meet others standards. i've made it here anyway!

p.s. atenista, lasallista, iskolar ng bayan, etc. you'll see em in call centers. kahilera lang ng mga tulad naming promdi

[docomo]

Personally, what I find overly-negative are posts that do nothing but complain; if the poster is looking to share an amusing anecdote,ask a question,or state your opinion without having to go beyond insulting somebody, that's one thing , but I don't see this forum as a place for self-righteous affirmation of one's own grammar prowess.
I'd hate to see this place become too wanky, though.

I wondered where our educational system went wrong ? :)

[chris_rock]

this thread has wandered way off from what it was originally intended. so before the moderators deem it worthy of closure...just my take on the matter if you please.

if a person wants to use her own writing style, so what?. she gets her message across from where i'm sitting. you're offended by a person's style of writing? then doooooon't read it! she'll ask your help if she needs it.

now in case some of you would like to take it upon yourselves to be the forum's 'grammar police', would it be too much to ask that you start checking on your own posts first? you just might find something 'grammatically inappropriate'.

thanks for reading. :D

[PILIPINAS]

I wondered where our educational system went wrong ? :)

Nice point. We need a separate thread for this. A very good issue to discuss. :confused:

[pointblank]

but ain't you the same person who said " Of course, no one is perfect as we all make mistakes, but the effort is important" ?

Of course, I am; and I still stand by that statement. But effort towards what? Towards trying to sound cool? Shouldn't the effort be more productively directed towards being understood, since communication is a two way street?

There are many, many, many more posts that are much worse than yours (admittedly, yours is one of the better ones), but you don't see me raising an issue with them. Yung ang kaya nila, eh. Nagsusumikap na i-express yung gusto nilang sabihin sa paraang sa tingin nila ay maiitindihan sila, so OK lang.

In the same way that I am not impressed by abstract artists unless they prove first that they can draw well in the conventional form, I think that the priority should be to master correct grammar first. (Picasso, Matisse, et al were all highly skilled realists, but painted in the abstract style by choice, not because they could not do otherwise.) Have you heard these young Japanese girls who go for three-month homestays in the US, then come home to Japan with a fake twang but really bad grammar? Ang sakit talaga sa tainga, lalo na when they speak loudly in the train to flaunt their English "ability." Mas gusto ko pang marining yung Japanese accent na tama ang sinasabi.

Just in case my post seems to be deviating from the original intent of the thread: I am not trying to bash another person's language. My point is: daily use of non-standard English/Filipino when basic English/Filipino skills have not yet been mastered is a major factor that is contributing to the deterioration of English/Filipino in the Philippines. Sooner than later, Pinoy kids will answer their exams in txt spllg, kac d na cla marung mgspllng.

[infinite_trial]

Just in case my post seems to be deviating from the original intent of the thread: I am not trying to bash another person's language.

you just did. but what can i do, i'm a fan of mediocrity. i'm also not impressed wit people who think highly of emselves.

we too are children of God.

peace! whatever that means to you.

[Tonyang]

Ka Tonyang, I also earnestly think that there is no problem. But probably this forum was set to have standards (that makes this forum special and interesting). And the MODS with other members are just implementing and complying with those.

So Pilipinas, we just want to think and discuss about it? More than doing so, what more can we do or should we do?

[doddy]

by Eunice Fernando and Sarah Azucena

MANILA (AFP) - For decades the troubled Philippines economy has been able to bank on one key asset in attracting foreign investors -- proficiency in the English language.

But even that lifeline in this poor country appears a tenuous one as fears surface over a sharp decline in English compounded by falling school standards and a mass exodus of linguistically skilled professionals.

There is plenty of blame to go around, with Gray faulting cellphone text messaging and the popularity of foreign soap operas dubbed into the Filipino language.

"There has been a steady decline from the time when the Philippines took pride in itself as one of the best English-speaking nations," Neil Perez an English and Literature lecturer at Manila's University of Santo Tomas acknowledged.

Perez blames the decline on the influence of pop culture and domestic media, where the dominant language is "taglish", a combination of Tagalog and English.

"The common language of everybody is this hybrid language taglish," he said. "It has become the standard rather than the exception.
"The kind of things that we see on television promotes the bastardization of the English language. We accept what the media feeds us," Perez added. Read the whole story here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060522/lf_afp/philippineseducation _060522151926)

So, Is English really that significant to our country's economic well-being?

The Philippines used to be adept in the English language decades ago. So why is our country still in bad shape? Would our country be in worse shape today, if we had not been skillful in the universal language before?

How come Japan, a country which is not skilled in the English language is such an economic powerhouse? FYI, Japan has the second largest economy in the world.

If you ask me, I think being proficient in English gives us an edge over the others when it comes to attracting foreigners to invest in our country, but we shouldn't rely on foreign investments too much. We should pay close attention to innovation in the technology, banking and business sectors as well. The Philippines should make education its number one priority, so we can produce quality professionals who could innovate in those fields.

This is how I see it. We may be more proficient in English than the Japanese, but the Japanese are more ambitious and more determined than us. Please correct me, if you think I'm wrong. :)



Hello everyone!

I personally thought that the underlying cause of this problem is the Filipinos’ habitual mediocrity of making an ‘Atras Abante’ policy. Our obdurate habit of getting round the truth is catching up with us. The ramification of Filipinos pa cute-cute arte has made us more of a joke than what we are supposed to be. It’s really ironic because we do have lots of potentials.

[doddy]

I think you are wrong. I dont think ambition and determination has anything to do with it. I think the reason we are behind the Japanese is that they have been at it for a long time now. They were already functioning like a country during the time of Christ. The US was started by migrants from Europe, where countries existed years before Christ... more than 2000 years ago. These people have been playing the game for quite a while now. Tayong pinoy? kelan lang tayo naging bansa, a bit over one hundred years?... theory ko lang din. I could be wrong.

Heh he he he . . . You are partly right Nemuypruce. The Japanese have been around way, way before us. It was their inherent ingenuity that made them what they are now. First being a military power in this part of the world and now an economic power. The irony is, they thrive in copying the west's technological prowess,modified them and made them as their own.

[PILIPINAS]

So Pilipinas, we just want to think and discuss about it? More than doing so, what more can we do or should we do?

Are you referring to the text massaging or "slang" way of writing? Well, for starters, we should all try not to use the text massaging style of writing. Let us blend our style with the majoiry. If English, make it straight English. Kung Tagalog, Tagalog. For this FORUM, let us make these exceptions.
Or probably you are referring to a much deeper issue? :confused:

[doddy]

@ NemoySpruce

Thanks for sharing your insight, NemoySpruce. :)
So, if longevity of a civilization is the criterion for advancement, then how come Japan, which started to function like a country in the 8th century, is more advanced than some nations in Europe which had a civilization dating back during the reign of the Roman Empire?

History taught us that empires come and go, but the ambition and determination of a people is what decides their place in this world.

@mylfer919mdo

Yes, I noticed that too. Sad, isn't it? :(

Hello Raiden my friend.

I think it was the Japanese innate abedience to authority which made them a very organise and discipline society which have largely contributed to their success. Not to mention their flair ability to think of what is good for them.

Peace

[doddy]

Hello guys,

The problem is, I believe, not the language per se, but rather the level at which we use the language.

We can either go English or Filipino - what is important is that we speak (read & write as well) it properly. Instead, we have deteriorated to the point where Pinoys can use NEITHER English nor Filipino correctly. It is not anymore a choice-of-language issue but a lack-of-brains problem.

I am, in fact, willing to accomodate Taglish if that is the means by which ideas are most effectively communicated. Alam mo naman kung "tama" yung pagka-Taglish. You either imbed Tagalog words into a correctly constructed English sentence or vice-versa. Hindi naman nakaka-irritate nang sobra. (That previous sentence is an example.) What I cannot stand is an obviously wrong sentence like: "People doesn't making sunod the rules." Ang problema, hindi yung Taglish kundi hindi talaga marunong mag-English yung speaker. Sa totoo lang, ang dami niyan sa Timog.

I need not further mention the evils of text-speak. Pwede ba, sa mga mahilig mag-text spelling kahit naman ordinary keyboard ang gamit ninyo - hindi kayo sosyal o fashionable, just simply nakaka-irita.

Isa ko pang pet peeve: mga balu-baluktot mag-English, pero ang hilig gumamit ng slang devices like: 'cuz or sumthin'. Really now, you are not fooling anybody into thinking you were born in the States or went to a swank exclusive school. Trying hard social climber from the probinsiya lang ang labas mo! Before attempting to sound cool, mag-review muna kayo ng basic English grammar para di nakakahiya!

Sorry for ranting & raving on like this, but I do think that it is these usages of language that have contributed significantly to the deterioration of our educational system.

You are amazing Pointblank! Your pluck is simply admirable. You are right. Conversely, the problem is the Philippines policy on the language. We can't make up our minds. It is hypocritical to make English as an official language when it is not understood and actively spoken by all. The same with Tagalog language. Honestly and shamelessly, if I were Manuel Quezon I would have made English an official language of the islands and wont impose Tagalog on the non-Tagalog speakers. I would never have made the two languages as official.

Just a shred of thought.

[doddy]

Maybe because people who are capable of writing in proper Tagalog is as rare as the Tamaraw (http://www.animalinfo.org/species/artiperi/bubamind.htm)?

Back to the topic:

The decline in English proficiency is very evident even here in TF. No wait, let me rephrase that. The decline in language proficiency is very evident here in TF. It doesn't matter whether it's English, Nihonggo, Tagalog or Cebuano.

Sorry for being blunt, but the fact is very few people here can write properly. Writing has never been one of our best skills. We were never trained to write well at school, be it in English or Filipino. Filipinos are talkers. We love to talk. We love to talk so much, we write the way we talk. If it had been the other way around, a lot more of us would be speaking properly, whether in English, Filipino, Cebuano or whatever language we choose (note: text speak is not a language, it's a bastardization of a language).

Heck, the article itself is evidence enough of the decline in our english proficiency. (Don't they have editors?)

"That is a reflected in the fast deterioration of our education standards both in public and private schools."

Sorry but I don't agree with this post.

There are many people who are great writers. Jose Rizal, Carlos Romolo, Carlos Bolusan, Nick Joaquin etc.

We were trained to write since we were in elementary. English in the Philippines is actually designed for Reading and writing and not to be our native tongue. That is, to be used as a language of communication among us on a daily basis. The problem is a result of the government urong sulong policy. We as the governed is the victim of that moronic policy.

[doddy]

Thanks for starting this thread.


1. establishing effective means to raise consciousness, influence other Filipinos to initiate contributing moves and being committed to do all these to help the country

2. being too dependent on FIs (foreign investments) is not good at all - because FIs come to the country because of the English capability of many Filipinos - OFIs (Overseas Filipino Investors) could pool their $ or \ too and such pooled amount is almost the same as that of the FIs.

3. we need good leaders and the most qualified of them all are the iskolar ng bayan because they have the kind of intelligence to analyze and research ways on how to make communication means effective and usable by many

Thus, this is a continuous call for all "iskolar ng bayan" to help achieve better communication skills for Filipinos because scholars have the highest credentials and qualifications to teach and lead the country... not necessarily English because the key to our success is understanding (key to working together) to develop mechanisms that will rebuild our country.

Hello Ka Tonyang! Just a yen if you may.

On the number one is really vague. I believe you mean well but it is really hazy. How are we going to raise consciousness and how we influence people I mean in what way and in what aspect?

On foreign investment. It is very much needed for several reasons:

Technology transfer or knowledge transfer, industrial development, capital, money for cash strapped governement through taxes, jobs generation and lastly to develop Philippine market.
If the people are jobless they don't have money. People without money can never be called a market. Foreign Investments runs the economies of China,India,Thailand , Malaysia and now the in-coming superstar VIETNAM.

I like your number three. It's really brilliant. I love it.

Perhaps we can make steps upward and forward by not putting aside the facts.

Actually Ka Tonyang, I think your works have already rubbed off on me. One of these days I will be your best partner in helping others.

Mabuhay ka Ka Tonyang.

[doddy]

Sa aking tingin, ang pagkakasulat ng "Decline in English proficiency in Philippines threatens economy" ay napaka-subjective (ika nga'y -palagay o pakiramdam na walang lantad na mga ebidensiya dahil ang analysis na naging rason ng ganitong konklusyon ay kinakailangan ng trend o pattern). Ito ay maaaring pagkakaroon lamang ng mabilisang sagot tungkol sa estado ng ating ekonomiya para mapagtakpan ang mas nakakatakot na mga katotohanan.　Isa pa'y lumang tugtugin na ang "pagiging English-speakers" naitn ang tumutulong o tutulong sa paglago ng bansa. Hangga't may terorismo at walang confidence sa liderato, mananatiling problematic ang ating ekonomiya.

You are right Ka Tonyang. It is actually subjective.

My reading into it however is that, since, basically the Philippine economy is props up largely in part by the OFW blood, the big capitalists are worried that MNC's around the world and the newly rich people in rapidly developing economies of China and other contries, they might lose interest in hiring Filipinos as workers. In China alone, I read in one newspaper article, is putting us in the DH job market as the most expensive MAIDS for the very reason that Filipinos speak english. The MNCs in the middle east and Africa are hiring Filipinos because of much easier communication through english. If that happens, the Philippines will be deprived of Dollars and the filthy rich in our country will go belly up.

[doddy]

Dear pipol,

Susubukan kong magbigay ng balanseng opinion tungkol dito sa "Decline in English Proficiency..."

Totoo na hindi naman absolute necessity ang pagiging magaling sa English para umunlad ang Pilipinas. Ang Thailand, Korea, Japan, China, etc., bano mag-Ingles, pero maunlad. Ngunit ang tandaan natin, magaling sila sa sarili nilang wika, kaya kahit na hindi sila marunong mag-Ingles ay maganda pa rin ang communication skills nila. Ikinalulungkot kong sabihin, at siguro ay napapansin niyo na rin, na maraming Pinoy (kasama na ako diyan) na hindi rin magaling mag-Filipino. Tignan niyo na lang ang mga posts sa Timog, kahit na Tagalog, mali-mali ang grammar, walang comma, walang period, walang capital letters, basta't sugod ng sugod na parang nakikipag-chikahan lang sa palengke.

So, the conclusion is: hindi talagang kailangan ang Ingles, ngunit dapat ay marunong naman tayo sa sarili nating wika kung ayaw natin ng Ingles.

That being said, mas maganda kung magaling tayo sa parehong Filipino at Ingles. Additional skill din yan, at wala namang mawawala sa atin sa pagiging mahusay sa Ingles.

Doon naman sa article na "Decline in English Proficiency...", tama din siya in a certain sense kung lawakan natin ang ating pananaw. Dahil sa napaka-English dependent sa kasalukuyan ang maraming sectors ng ating economy (mga call centers, mga export products, mga overseas workers, mga IT-related fields, etc.), talagang maapektuhan ang income-earning capabilities natin FOR THE TIME BEING pag humina din ang galing natin sa Ingles. Note: sinabi ko na "for the time being", meaning to say, hanggang mapalitan natin ang "character" ng economy natin from an outside-oriented one to a more domestic demand-driven economy. Dito ngayon papasok ang nationalism natin - kung gaano tayo ka-commited sa pagpapaganda ng kinabukasan ng ating bansa.

Merong nagsabi sa thread na ito na hindi naman kasi exclusive-school graduates ang lahat ng tao sa TF, kung kaya't hindi lahat diretso mag-Ingles. Hindi niyo kailangan mag-apologize o mahiya! Ano ngayon kung di kayo marunong mag-Ingles, kung magaling naman kayo mag-Filipino? Kahanga-hanga nga ang mga malalalim managalog (dahil hindi ko kaya!). Ang nakakainis, yung mga bano na nga mag-Ingles, pero pa wurz-wurz pa. Mali-mali ang grammar, pero mahilig gumamit ng "'cuz" "sumthin'" "ya know" atbp, in short, yung mga nagpupumilit na maging brown Americans! Hindi na kasi ito problema ng utak (language skills) kundi ng puso (pagmamahal sa Pinas) at damdamin (colonial mentality).

Yun lang!

No comment ako sa mga super Taray mo ha. Heh he he . . . . You are right PB. We need english ability because of the MNCs operating in the Philippines. Another thing is, even if one is very good in Tagalog and not in English, that persone can never get a good job except tag-walis sa kalsada. I never heard a single story that says one Filipino get a job in a bank or any company in the Philippines just because his Tagalog is perfect. If you can't speak english you can never get a good paying job.

SK and JPN don't need english because their industrial products are very famous around the world. It only has become necessary because of Globalisation which resulted to interdependence of their companies with the companies of the west. But for a poor country like ours, we need it badly. We need it because we already had free access to that language through history. It is really too bad if we'll lose it. We already lost one advantageous language , which was Spanish, we cannot afford to lose this one just because of silly and false nationalism.

[doddy]

importante ang sarili nating wika, pero hindi ito basehan ng national identity natin. Unang una, ano ba ang tinutukoy mong wika natin? tagalog? ilonggo? cebuano? ilocano? chabacano? ... Language is a medium for communicating ideas, it is a tool. Language does not define your national identity in any way. Some americans are more Filipino than some Filipinos I know, And some Filipinos are more american than some americans. A language can be used in many ways, depending on the people using it. I dont care what language you use, if you can make me understand what you are trying to say, then its all good. Reading and speaking a language are two different planets altogether, these forums are somewhere in the middle. You can post 2 ways, like a book, or like someone talking. both is good for me, as long as you organize your thoughts, and present it in a clear, readable way.

it doesnt matter whether you speak nihongo, english or tagalog, kung pinoy ka, pinoy ka.

Uyy! Nemuypruce nadale mo. Ang galeng mo ah! It is indeed true. In our situation, to speak Tagalog is not indeed a basis of one's identity. Keep it up Nemuypruce!!!

[doddy]

It's not particularly surprising to me that language is such a contentious issue, because of it's universality, and it's power. It's how we communicate most of our thoughts, so words are vessels of love,hate,joy and misery. I'm interested in language and grammar but I would never be so foolish as to base a person's "competency" on whatever they know where to put an apostrophe. Proper grammar is meant to help people communicate better,not to discriminate againsts one another. :)

Heh he he he . . . Aray ko may natamaan yata ah!

[doddy]

I'm sorry, I do not understand your binary thing at all. In the meantime, please follow the rules regarding textspeak, slang types and all that because most old people here including myself have a hard time understanding. It is sadly ironic that we are stressing good points about communication proficiency and we ourselves cannot even follow some basic TF writing rules. Slang our way when we talk in person, fine. But in the forums let us all exert effort in writing Tagalog or english properly, shall we?


LOL!!:D You always made me laugh. Vwrangler your witty,sharp punchline are still very much working I think it's getting sharper as you're getting more oyaji. Heh he he he . . . .

[doddy]

yes. but the slang words you use should be appropriate for the person you are talkin wit, that's why it's important to recognize their accents too. there are instances that a caller will use slang words cuz some ain't aware that their calls are bein redirected internationally. so you must be really aware of the common slang words they use. that's an advantage cuz you can build rapport wit your customers cuz you treat em casually (which they like better) and get commended for doin a great job.

Hello IT! How are things with you? Do you like to dizco wid muah?

Personally, I despised the use of bastardised english words. What is the need for it, when all of us here are not NATIVE ENGLISH speakers? We are not even hip hoppers! We can't appreciate it. I don't really personally think that it makes one's image cool or pleasant or trendy. But in the spirit of freedom I can take an exception if that is how you best express yourself.

[doddy]

However, sorry to be bluntly "pointblank", I can count several grammatical mistakes in infinite-trial's posts. Please note that these are NOT deliberate mistakes due to a conscious attempt at style: mali talaga ang gamit ng English, since the mistakes occur in the "serious-style" phrases. Again, sorry for the bluntness, but if you expostulate on the merits of your English, then you hold yourself to a higher standard of evaluation. Peace!

Hi Pointblank!

Is it really necessary to niggle over that big word of GRAMMAR? You are not a native english speaker yourself. Why niggle? Even the native english speakers will just let it pass. The point is, as long as one can express himself and get his message across is perfectly okay. We should never get at people because they wrote their post ungrammatically. Come to think about it, this is not an English Forum where grammar is strictly observed. TF is a very ordinary forum for Filipinos who are not native english speakers. I don't really see the point of pointing out one's poster's ungrammatical post.

Or maybe it's just me. I am in a wrong place. Oh God help me! I am lost.

[doddy]

you are correct. 2 counts.

1) Language is for everyone
2) Universities are overrated. :D

-- but the slang words you use should be appropriate for the person you are talkin wit.

These are words of wisdom we all should take to heart. The words you use should be appropriate to the people you are talking wit.. ahem. with. It helps to get your message accross. Im all for the growth and development of language, but I think, In order for us to 'grow' in the correct direction, we should appreciate proper grammar first, before we try to 'grow' our own language.

'Slang' by the way, is defined as a stylistic use of a language, highly informal, and usually vulgar, used by a particular group to characterize themselves from others. It is usually appropriate to use 'slang', with others that speak the same slang. I guess sort of like 1337, a.k.a leet, you would not use 1337 to 74lK 70 be0bl3 7ha7 dont get it. no one would understand you.

Im not trying to smother anyone's right to speak in a creative way. Im saying do it with style and substance. Thats just my opinion, take it or toss it, its all good.

Nemuypruce

I didn't know the samples given are the exact meaning of slang. For me the word mahsef etc. is bastardised words. They are not slangs. As to your samples of slang, I believe it is called afro-american lingo. I mean slang for me is words like 24/7 which means a week. Ball ache which means troublesome.

But then I can be wrong. I have never been to the U.S.

[doddy]

this thread has wandered way off from what it was originally intended. so before the moderators deem it worthy of closure...just my take on the matter if you please.

if a person wants to use her own writing style, so what?. she gets her message across from where i'm sitting. you're offended by a person's style of writing? then doooooon't read it! she'll ask your help if she needs it.

now in case some of you would like to take it upon yourselves to be the forum's 'grammar police', would it be too much to ask that you start checking on your own posts first? you just might find something 'grammatically inappropriate'.

thanks for reading. :D

Hah ha ha ha ha . . . Do I need to say more?

[fisher]

Hindi ako masusukat sa aking pananalita!:D Kaya kong sabihin ito sa inglis pero sa tagalog ko na lang sinabi.

[doddy]

Of course, I am; and I still stand by that statement. But effort towards what? Towards trying to sound cool? Shouldn't the effort be more productively directed towards being understood, since communication is a two way street?

I believe it should be SINCE WHEN . . . . . and not the other way around!

There are many, many, many more posts that are much worse than yours (admittedly, yours is one of the better ones), I believe this comma is extraneous. The rule is after the close parenthesis it should never be followed by a comma because parenthesis is already taking the role of the comma. but you don't see me raising an issue with them. Yung ang kaya nila, eh. Nagsusumikap na i-express yung gusto nilang sabihin sa paraang sa tingin nila ay maiitindihan sila, so OK lang.

In the same way that I am not impressed by abstract artists unless they prove first that they can draw well in the conventional form, I believe this one should be a full stop or period in American English. I think that the priority should be to master correct grammar first. (Picasso, Matisse, et al were all highly skilled realists, but painted in the abstract style by choice, not because they could not do otherwise.) Have you heard these young Japanese girls who go for three-month homestays I believe the S is not really necessary because three month homestay is a noun phrase.in the US, then come home to Japan with a fake twang but really bad grammar? Ang sakit talaga sa tainga, lalo na when they speak loudly in the train to flaunt their English "ability." Mas gusto ko pang marining yung Japanese accent na tama ang sinasabi.

Just in case my post seems to be deviating from the original intent of the thread: I am not trying to bash another person's language. My point is: daily use of non-standard English/Filipino when basic English/Filipino skills have not yet been mastered is a major factor that is contributing to the deterioration of English/Filipino in the Philippines. Sooner than later, Pinoy kids will answer their exams in txt spllg, kac d na cla marung mgspllng.

Oppps!! Sorry I was just kidding. No offense. Peace tayo PB.

[Tonyang]

Sorry but I don't agree with this post.

There are many people who are great writers. Jose Rizal, Carlos Romolo, Carlos Bolusan, Nick Joaquin etc.

We were trained to write since we were in elementary. English in the Philippines is actually designed for Reading and writing and not to be our native tongue. That is, to be used as a language of communication among us on a daily basis. The problem is a result of the government urong sulong policy. We as the governed is the victim of that moronic policy.

Noon pa problema ang gobyerno natin, Kapatid. Deadend palagi ang discussion kung babanggitin natin iyan dahil palaging given na iyan. Nasa individual struggle o kung may chance na may social group na kung paano natin malalampasan o magkaroon tayo ng solusyon sa mga ganyang problema.

Di rin natin puwedeng basta-basta batuhin ang ating EDUKASYON. Dahil malawak na scope ito na kung di natin alam ang internal issues, forever nating pag-uusapan ang tema nito sa labas lamang nito. Isa pa, tayong mga nag