'No to Filipino nurses', says JNA

[nick]

abscbnThe Japanese Nursing Association (JNA), which is against the entry of Filipino nurses in Japan, said the working conditions of Japanese nurses must be improved first before Filipinos are taken in. In a recent interview, Kyoko Nagaike, a JNA board member, told The Manila Times that the salaries of Japanese nurses should at least be doubled before Filipino nurses could work in Japanese hospitals. Read more... (http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?Story ID=57484)

[infinite_trial]

wow that would be really tough for our nurses. imagine they need to pass the licensure exam written in japanese. conversational japanese is confusing to me...what more when medical terms are thrown in *sigh*

[proud me]

maraming pagdadaanan butas ng karayom ang mga Filipino nurses natin bago sila makapag-trabaho dito...pero true naman kasi na marami rin silang nurses dito kaya siguro tanda lang ng pag tupad nila sa trabaho na ibibigay nila sa Fiipino nurses natin...pero siguro tama lang din naman dahil buhay ng tao ang naka taya sa Hospital...ayaw lang siguro ng japan magkaroon ng problema sa bagay na ito...maingay pa naman ang Nihon kokumin...Filipino Nurses Gambatte kudasai!:)

[love0308]

I think kung ako ang nurse i will not choose Japan for me to work but rather choose America:D Why? Ofcourse kapag sa America di mo kailangan pag aralan ang language nila at madali mong ma aadopt ang culture nila unlike pag sa Japan ang dami mo pang dapat gawing effort para makapasok dito:) Just my opinion

[Dax]

From the link:
1. Filipino nurses must obtain a Japanese nursing license by passing National Examination for nurses.
2. They must be proficient enough in the Japanese language to practice safe nursing care.
3. They must be employed under the same or better conditions if they work in Japan.
4. They must not admit mutual recognition of licenses.
We have discussed items 1. and 2. already and I think the news article is more about item 3. (as for item 4., I think item 1. already clears that up)
"If we allow Filipino nurses to come in and they would be given lower salaries and lower benefits than the Japanese nurses are receiving, it could spell worse times for us because as it is now, the working conditions of Japanese nurses need much improvement and if cheap labor would come in, these working conditions, we’re afraid, would remain,"It is but natural for the Japanese Nursing Association to react this way. Siempre kailangan nilang protektahan ang kanilang interes. Kilala ang galing ng mga nurses natin sa buong mundo. Kung magiging mas mababa nga naman ang isu-sweldo sa kanila ay siempre maaaring mawalan ang mga Japanese nurses ng trabaho.
So I think win-win situation itong 3. kung tatanggapin ng gobyerno ng Japan. :)

[YAN]

Yes. Its very true,our filipino nurses has to undergo a very strict training ang examinations if they intend to work here in japan.Tama lang yun,because medical related jobs has to be definite always,mahirap magkamali. But for me,like what one of our TF member said,kung nurse ako, i wouldnt choose japan to go to work,ang hirap kasi ng pagdadaanan,and with regards to learning japanese and kanji, grabe ang hirap kaya nun,id rather go to english countries to work.just my opinion.And if ever someday may mabalitaan tayong filipino nurse here in japan,i won't be surprise anymore,iba yata ang galing ng pinoy!:D

[mikong]

From the link:
We have discussed items 1. and 2. already and I think the news article is more about item 3. (as for item 4., I think item 1. already clears that up)
It is but natural for the Japanese Nursing Association to react this way. Siempre kailangan nilang protektahan ang kanilang interes. Kilala ang galing ng mga nurses natin sa buong mundo. Kung magiging mas mababa nga naman ang isu-sweldo sa kanila ay siempre maaaring mawalan ang mga Japanese nurses ng trabaho.
So I think win-win situation itong 3. kung tatanggapin ng gobyerno ng Japan. :)

tama ka nga dun dax san....tanong ko nga s asaw ko kung bakit parang natatakot ang mga hapon sa mga filipino workers,sagot na man nya takot lang daw ng mga nipponjin nurses na maalasan sila sa trabaho at sa sweldo dahil ang mga filipino daw ay matatalino...:)

[mukomae]

Kasi yun kuya ko nag graduate ng BS psycho at nag graduate din siya as a caregiver sa pag kakataon na tutulungan siya ng mommy namin sa USA na makapunta dun as a caregiver, pero hanggang ngayon wala pa din comunication ang mommy ko, matagal na... So nag apply siya ng ibang work as a caregiver sa ibang country.. Natanggap nga siya sa ISRAEL kaso kailangan din niyang mag aral ng language at nung sulat ng israel... Sabi ko dito nalang siya sa Japan kaso mukang ganun din...mahirap kasi ang kanji ... kung yung iba nga mga pinay na andito di pa lahat alam yun kanji at kung meron man ilang taon bago pa sila na tuto...hay naku , wala lang share ko lang po...:O

[pointblank]

I remember having discussed this issue before, but I forget which thread.

The FTA is quite problematic since it is inherently exploitative of the Philippines. I really wonder if our government went into it conscientiously (as in, malinis ang intentions nila, pero bobo sila) or as willing accomplices (as in, matalino sila, pero mga ahas dahil binenta nila tayo ng husto). For the "opportunity" to send nurses to Japan, we are admitting many Japanese imports (like cars) almost tax free.

While there is of course a safety issue (since nurses deal with human lives), I think that the Japanese government is fully aware that almost none of these nurses will pass the Japanese nursing exam in 3 years. (Ewan ko lang kung alam yan ni Glo, baka akala niya madali ang Nihongo: irrashaimase, Maria desu, nomimono ikaga desu ka...) O sige, let the scholars here in Timog respond: how many of you can pass the Japanese national licensure exams in your respective fields 3 years after arriving here? Take note that you have the luxury of studying full time, while these nurses and caregivers will need to be changing diapers half the time.

What we have in effect given Japan is an endless supply of young, medically educated maids. They will be sent to Japanese hospitals, health institutions, geriatric facilties, etc. to work as orderlies (dahil hindi sila officially nurses until they pass that exam and get the nursing visa, which is then renewable every 3 years) paid with apprentice level salaries. In short, this is now the nurse version of the exploitative trainee visa program.

The worse part of this agreement is the "forced repatriation" after 3 years. These nurses will not even be allowed to stay on as orderlies. The Japanese government seems to have no intention of assimilating them into Japanese society. It merely wants FRESH YOUNG blood that it can work off like horses, then discard them like used tissue paper when they've started to become tired. No need to pay them pension or any of the social support benefits. AND OUR GOVERNMENT AGREED TO THAT! (Despite warning and advice from many sectors.)

Tama yung comments nung iba dito: if I were a really good nurse with the brains to pass the Japanese nursing exams - which is going to be for our nurses effectively a Nihongo test rather than a nursing test, pupunta na lang ako sa Amerika o sa UK! Walang language problem, they can easily pass the exams there, after a few years ay may green card na sila, then pwedeng maging citizen, and they have every opportunity to become head of the nursing sections of the hospitals (as many Filipino nurses have become). Kahit na pumasa sila ng exams dito, they will never rise to the position of head nurse. Japan has actually done itself a big disfavor with its xenophobic policies, since it will cut out the really good ones. But then again, all it seems to want is menial labor...

[aprilluck]

Tama yung comments nung iba dito: if I were a really good nurse with the brains to pass the Japanese nursing exams - which is going to be for our nurses effectively a Nihongo test rather than a nursing test, pupunta na lang ako sa Amerika o sa UK! Walang language problem, they can easily pass the exams there, after a few years ay may green card na sila, then pwedeng maging citizen, and they have every opportunity to become head of the nursing sections of the hospitals (as many Filipino nurses have become). Kahit na pumasa sila ng exams dito, they will never rise to the position of head nurse. Japan has actually done itself a big disfavor with its xenophobic policies, since it will cut out the really good ones. But then again, all it seems to want is menial labor...


Yes din ako sa comment na ito ,since nandito na ako sa USA ,now all I can say is theres a lot of goal opportunity here especially in medical fields ,Ako nga I couldn't believe myself na in about four months of staying here I already made some kind of decision , like taking short term schooling for CNA ( Clinical Nursing Aide) and by early next year I'm looking forward to go ahead to study two years course LPN ( Lincensed Practical Nursing ) not the RN ha ,wala na rin kasi akong oras ,working and studying at the same time is not that easy ,challenging though.As of now I'm working at the hospital where one of my sister is a nurse , And couldn't believe the first pay check I had , gosh !!!Surely no hospital in Japan will pay me that amount .Maybe I just have a chance to make things pretty good because almost of my family are living here and almost are in medical fields ,even they aren't living in the same state.

Iyun nga lang a lot of things to set ,about my kid's school ,ect. and also there are things that makes me desperate ,But then I'm glad I have this chance for a change ,for our future also.

[proud me]

Siguro nga kung pareho lang na me chance sa U.S at japan mas maganda talaga sa U.S na lang maki-pagsapalaran ang mga Filipino Nurses natin.mas marami pa sigurong chances silang ma-challenge kesa dito...trabaho at pakikisama palang stress na sila...tapos sabayan pa ng mga problema sa mga naiwan nila sa pinas na pamilya.:D bago matapos kontrata nila...ala na pagod na sila sa kaka-isip na mag-gambaro...Hay! buhay sa japan...sa lahat ng larangan pareho ang buhay nating mga pinoy.:D motto nihonggo benkyou shinasai,motto gambatte...lahat nalang motto ang pambatong salita....kaya puro Stress o madaling ma-stress...Filipino Nurses kung may chance sa amerika don nalang kayo...

[Dax]

Tungkol sa language problem, or Condition #2. by the JNA...mukhang marami na ang naga-agree ngayon sa post ko noon. At that time maraming kumontra. :D
The 1000 nurses and caregivers that would come do not automatically qualify to work professionally. Tama, may training muna, may Nihongo lessons, may OJT etc. and then most importantly may kailangan silang pasahan na national license examinations (in Nihongo) na kung saan bumabagsak din pati na mga native-speaking Japanese.

So ang tanong ay: ilan naman kaya sa 1000 ang talagang magiging nurses at caregivers? We all know how difficult Nihongo is! Tapos hindi lang ordinaryong Nihongo, kundi medical terms! So I would guess di nga siguro aabot sa 100 (just a wild guess) ang magiging labas nyan. Ang babagsak sa exam ay pababalikin sa Pinas. Excerpt from: Attention: 1000 Nurses and Caregivers from Philippine (http://www.timog.com/forum/showthread.php?t=644 8)

[pointblank]

Tungkol sa language problem, or Condition #2. by the JNA...mukhang marami na ang naga-agree ngayon sa post ko noon. At that time maraming kumontra. :D


Hindi ko nabasa yang previous thread na yan. Baka nangyari kasi during one of my hibernation periods. Pero I agree with you fully.

I understand that a lot of people want to feel good & optimistic, but being blind to reality is an entirely different thing. Ako kasi, pessimist - I assume the worst para walang ugly surprises later on.

First, I would like to make it clear that I believe our nurses will pass the nursing exam with no problems at all if it is given in English. Kaya nga sinabi ko na hindi ito magiging nursing exam for them (to test their nursing knowledge), but a Nihongo exam (to test their language ability).

To pass the nursing exam, I do not think having even an 1-kyuu proficiency is enough. Iba yung speaking sa read & write! Kahit na mag-aral sila ng Nihongo sa Pilipinas, it will simply not be enough. I mean, many of their Nihongo teachers (karamihan ay mga Pinoy na nagpapanggap na bihasa sila sa Nihongo) will not even have the 1-kyuu and may not know more than 250-300 kanji characters. How will these potential nurses go beyond that if their teachers cannot? (Please note that according to data and rankings from overseas Japanese quasi-government agencies, the Philippines ranks BY FAR way behind the other Asian countries in terms of Nihongo education. Ayan kasi, dahil sa colonial mentality natin, sa Hollywood English lang tayo may interes.)

Mabilis sabihin na with their brains, kaya nila yan. But before such a comment is made, I would like to ask the speaker how much Japanese he/she reads and writes. If you cannot read the Nihon Keizai Shimbun at 90% comprehension without reaching for a dictionary, you should not be making that comment lightly. If you have not taken (sige, kahit na hindi na passed) a national professional licensing exam in Japanese, you have no business giving false hope.

Dax, you are actually generous when you say that perhaps 10% of them will pass. I think it will be less than 5%. Much much less.

I really wish that they all do well, but we need a reality check.

[mark_15]

Here is an interesting view point (http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?Story Id=57698), a much positive outlook of the dilemma of Filipino nurses and caregivers applying for work in Japan.

It's not so bad when you think of it, considering that Japan cannot afford not to hire foreign workers and do the things most Japanese won't be thinking of doing, (its not that it's something demeaning, still is decent) when in fact, Japan is in dire need for such positions to be filled. I think the rules would have to be bent eventually once the stubborn Japanese system realizes it has to be looking globally with their domestic problems.

Spoken and written language barrier would certainly be a problem, but there are ways and programs to narrow the gap of a positive handshake. Japan is well aware of this and perhaps, it is wise to give it a serious thought. It is quite understandable, Japan-Philippine Economic Partnership Agreement is just the 'first' of such steps in opening up the Japanese labor market with the Philippines, things need not be rushed.

But if one is seriously thinking that it's a seamlessly impenetrable barrier, then Japan would have to simply continue to grow old without the rest of the world.

[mOtt_erU]

grabe parang dadaan pala sa butas ng Karayom ang mga Nurses na gustong makapagtrabaho dito....pero tignin ko para rin naman sa welfare nila yun....kase hindi naman sapat na alam mo lang yung profession mo, dapat proficient ka ding magsalita at magsulat sa Nihonggo para maiExpress at maipahatid mo lahat at ng accurate ang mga bagay-bagay regarding sa field of work mo......

tungkol naman sa sinabi ng JNA , na dapat doblehin muna ang salary nila, bago sila pumayag na magpapasok ng mga Filipina Nurses...siguro may rason sila....
pero bakit naman kailangan pa na doble?? pwede naman gawin na "mas higher" na lang ang sweldo nila...parang ang exagge naman kase na dapat doble.....
opinyon ko lang yan,..

[Dax]

tungkol naman sa sinabi ng JNA , na dapat doblehin muna ang salary nila, bago sila pumayag na magpapasok ng mga Filipina Nurses...siguro may rason sila....
pero bakit naman kailangan pa na doble?? pwede naman gawin na "mas higher" na lang ang sweldo nila...parang ang exagge naman kase na dapat doble.....
opinyon ko lang yan,..mOtt_erU san, ang pagkakaintindi ko dun sa "doblehin muna" ay ganito:

1. doblehin ang sweldong tinatanggap ngayon ng Japanese nurses
2. ibigay din ang parehong halaga sa mga darating na Pinay/Pinoy nurses

So mas maganda nga ito kesa gawing "higher" ang sweldo ng Japanese nurses. :) Sabi dun sa link ng original article:
Nagaike said the JNA would only be willing to support the entry of Filipino nurses if the Japanese government could ensure that they would be given the same treatment and salaries that Japanese nurses were receiving.

[benjun]

JNA is simply voicing an irony in this supposedly free economy.

Why haven't the salaries of nurses and caregivers risen when the health care industry is short-handed? This fact beats the law of supply and demand in the world's second largest capitalist economy. When a profession is in demand and supply is low, the pay for that profession should rise.

But why are Japanese nurses bearing with subsistence salaries?

The reason is simple: Japan's pension and medical health insurance system is already strained by the greying society. Increasing the cost of health care will further strain the system. Pero kahit hindi tataasan ang sahod ng mga Japanese nurses, habang papahaba ang buhay ng mga Hapon at dumadami ang matatanda, patuloy silang mabibigatan.

In short, in a society characterized by honne (the real intention) and tatemae (external posturing), Japan's dragging of heels on the entry of Filipino caregivers is merely external posturing, possibly to appease domestic interest groups like the JNA.

Wala silang ibang paraan kundi tanggapin ang mga foreign health workers dahil kahit doblehin nila ang sahod ng mga Japanese nurses, kukulangin pa rin ang mga batang Hapon na gugustuhing mag-alaga ng mga matatanda.

Alam naman natin na madalas at mabilis nilang binabago ang Immigration Law. Nitong nakaraang 5 taon, ilang beses nilang binago? Dati, para mabigyan ng working visa ang isang foreigner, kailangang suwelduhan siya ng employer ng hindi kumulang 25 lapad. Ngayon, tinatanggap na nila kahit 17 lapad lang.

I will even venture a guess that eventually, nursing and health care workers will fall into the general category of working visas where a diploma in a four-year college course is all that's needed.

Katulad ng sinabi ni Junta Shinozawa, maaari namang gawan ng paraan ang trabaho ng mga health care workers, tulad ng ginagawa sa Taiwan, na hindi heavyduty and Japanese mo. Maraming Filipino engineers, English teachers, marketers, etc. na may working visa na hindi mo maisasali sa Japanese speech contest. Of course, this is no excuse for slackening our efforts.

I am confident the present conditions for acceptance of Filipino caregivers are not the final word on the FTA.

[Tarena314]

naguguluhan talaga ako..,kung tutuusin dapat ang bansang Japan ang sagana sa mga nurses at doctor ..,dahil mayayaman sila ..,hindi tulad nating mga pinoy na karamihan ay mahihirap na walang pampa aral ..,kapos sa badget pero tayo ang may mas maraming mga nurses at doctor..,Pero para sakin ..,hindi na dapat na gawing isyu kung paano pa makakapasok ang ating mga kababayang nurses at mga care giver sa bansang Japan..mas mainam na satin na lang muna sila magtrabaho..,mas mainam na isipin muna ng ating gobyerno kung paano ba pahalagahan ang ating mga kababayan na nurses na mismo sa ating bansa sila mamuhay at maglingkod sa ating mga kababayang nangangailangan ng tulong nila..,ito po naman ay aking pansariling pananaw lang..,:(

[purpletablet]

may napanood ako sa isang news... masyado daw mahigpit at marami ang requirements ng mga pinoy nurses dito sa japan.. ang daming trainings, etc pero ang kalalabasan lang daw ay nursing aid which is not their job description kaya ang Philippine nurses' assoc ay nagpahayag na may mga ibang bansa pa like UK, US & Middle East na kung saan mapapractice nila ang profession nila as nurses and not like as nursing aids

[Raiden]

Dito na lang sana sa US magpunta ang mga sobrang nurses natin para mas dumami pa ang Pinoy dito. 2 million palang kasi tayo dito eh. :D

Pero huwag naman sana nating ipagsawalang bahala ang brain drain na sasapitin ng Pilipinas kapag lahat ng nurses at doktor ay mangingibang-bansa. :( Yung mother ko 20 years nagtrabaho sa Pilipinas as a nurse bago nagpunta sa US. Pero di ko rin masisi ang mga kababayan nating nagnanais mangibang-bansa dahil medo mahirap din ang buhay sa Pilipinas sa ngayon. Kailangan nating mai-balance sitwasyon na ito to get the maximum benefits without straining our country's overall well-being too much.